Goodness me, for an electric car, it's beautiful...
Discussion
LuS1fer said:
The Cadillac rendition is easily the best:
That's actually rather nice, but it ought to be given the cost. Looks very much like a Caddy-ied & show-car'd flashy Astra GTC. Presumably it has the drivetrain (in theory at least), but does it run properly and will it look quite so nice in the showroom?dowahdiddyman said:
Is this another electric car that in 5 years or so will need all the batteries renewing at a cost of app. £5K. If so who the hell is going to buy a second hand one, oh and yeah it`s pig ugly.
You mean exactly the same as all the hybrids that need a new battery every 5 years according to the expertsWhen hybrids when mass market the experts told us that they would be worth nothing after 5 years as the batteries would be f
kedWhat does puzzle me is why none of the experts are making millions by replacing all these dead hybrid batteries
ambuletz said:
This is pretty nice for an electric car too. Faster then the original aswell.
http://www.firebox.com/product/4907/Electric-DeLor...
Yup, I bought one and used it to go back in time to post about it 2 hours before you http://www.firebox.com/product/4907/Electric-DeLor...
AnotherClarkey said:
Are you quite sure about that? Or maybe you are thinking of the forthcoming Renault electric cars where the batteries will be leased? The ampera battery comes with the car and is guaranteed for 8 years I believe.
Yes I'm sure, as on their web site it clearly says (in small print) leasing arrangements yet to be finalised.Edited by AnotherClarkey on Saturday 31st March 22:33
My lad and some of his friends work in the auto industry and the rumours are it will be more than that Renault.
The thing is, the monthly lease charge covers you for the new batteries.
So no huge bill in the future/5 years down the line.
But if you were only buying it for say 3 years, would you worry about the guy who owns it in 5/6 years time?
The lease process will raise residuals and also lower them, so exactly where they end up is anybodies guess?
Never known any company car owner think of the following owners and paying for the new turbo or head-gasket many years down the line. PUC and Tax is what I was comparing.
As I say, I had almost paid the £150 upfront refundable deposit when I noticed the comment about the leasing.
I wanted to get one to save money, it won't save me ANY MONEY compared to my A4.
If you want this or any of the new generation cars, it will cost you a lot more than a small diesel.
However there are a considerable number of people who have been hoodwinked by the CO2 con, and will no doubt be willing to pay the extra for these electric cars.
China (BYD) were supposed to be brining on a Ferrous Lithium Ion battery technology that had twice the range and lasted years longer.
But yet again the feed back I have read says it don't work quire as expected.
Once electric cars are readily available, I suspect a big push to reduce CITY car exhaust emissions to zero. And I include the manufacturers in that push.
CNG is has a big future for cars IMHO.
The only answer for electric cars is induction loops in the road, but without considerable new Nuclear power generation, I don't believe it will ever happen.
ALL IMHO of course.
JonnyVTEC said:
But then it would be even more 'inefficient' moving the car AND charging the battery a long journey would use even more fuel than just running in charge sustain mode and waiting until you plugged in.
I'll rephrase. I understand that once the petrol motor kicks in, it runs at the most efficient power setting for the demand from the electric motors. Why not configure it so that it runs at the most efficient power setting all of the time, then if you're going uphill, great, all of the power goes to the motors, but if you're cruising, or coasting (downhill, slowing down, whatever) the engine would still be providing power, but rather than the electric motors using it, it would be charging the batteries. I guess people wouldn't like the constant rpm effect, but I see no other reason why that's not a good idea. But then I'm no engineer...I could be wrong, but I also believe that the Ampera doesn't have the ability to recharge the batteries through using the electric motors as generators when braking either.
To me it's a good concept, and if the above points were addressed, I would be very interested as I see it as the best of the hybrids at the moment.
It's not a bad looker in the flesh, no supermodel, but not hideous either (calling it beautiful is a bit too much imo though)
The real flaw in the plan, the fly in the ointment as it were, has nothing to do with the powertrain, or the way it looks, nope, it's the frankly terrible ride /handling balance they seem to have saddled the car with. Ok, Ok, on the Volt, for the domestic american market i would have expected (and got) a fairly inert chassis and lifeless steering feel. But in Europe? Has anyone from Vauxhall ever driven a 320d?? If the Ampera had at least on-par european ride and handling i could overlook the slightly iffy interior quality, the naff "future tech" graphic on the OSD's, the noticeable degredation in NVH when the range extender is running, the lack of interior accomodation, the poor blend and progression between regen and proper hydraulic braking. All of those things i could have got used to, but, after driving something like a 320d, getting into and driving an Ampera, well, pardon the pun, but it's just very "Flat" feeling.............
The big step required for this cars Next Gen however, is taking the "brave pills" as a manfacturer and ditiching the large IC engine for a smaller one. Ok, you're going to loose the "full performance whatever the mode" capability, but i would accept a reduced performance in range extending mode, especially now they have added the SOC "hold" button for MY12. As it currently stands the system can deliver the full tractive envelope which ever mode the car is in, but that means you are carting around a lot of mass for a vast majority of the time you never use (expecially for people doing less than 40odd miles per day). In not very hilly Britain, having a RE ICE with about 30kW would be plenty to provide the bulk cruise portions of the roadload.
The real flaw in the plan, the fly in the ointment as it were, has nothing to do with the powertrain, or the way it looks, nope, it's the frankly terrible ride /handling balance they seem to have saddled the car with. Ok, Ok, on the Volt, for the domestic american market i would have expected (and got) a fairly inert chassis and lifeless steering feel. But in Europe? Has anyone from Vauxhall ever driven a 320d?? If the Ampera had at least on-par european ride and handling i could overlook the slightly iffy interior quality, the naff "future tech" graphic on the OSD's, the noticeable degredation in NVH when the range extender is running, the lack of interior accomodation, the poor blend and progression between regen and proper hydraulic braking. All of those things i could have got used to, but, after driving something like a 320d, getting into and driving an Ampera, well, pardon the pun, but it's just very "Flat" feeling.............
The big step required for this cars Next Gen however, is taking the "brave pills" as a manfacturer and ditiching the large IC engine for a smaller one. Ok, you're going to loose the "full performance whatever the mode" capability, but i would accept a reduced performance in range extending mode, especially now they have added the SOC "hold" button for MY12. As it currently stands the system can deliver the full tractive envelope which ever mode the car is in, but that means you are carting around a lot of mass for a vast majority of the time you never use (expecially for people doing less than 40odd miles per day). In not very hilly Britain, having a RE ICE with about 30kW would be plenty to provide the bulk cruise portions of the roadload.
samdale said:
A bit steep...it's effing vertical!!!AnotherClarkey said:
Jaged said:
Nope!
You have to lease the batteries!!
None of the above have mentioned this and it is expected to be at least £100 a MONTH!!!!!
I was going to buy one of these for my daily commute, love the funky star wars looks even.
But the batteries life is still the killer and nobody will save any money running one of these!
But there are people who can afford it.
If they ban IC engine cars from inner London, it will be your only choice in a couple of years?????
Are you quite sure about that? Or maybe you are thinking of the forthcoming Renault electric cars where the batteries will be leased? The ampera battery comes with the car and is guaranteed for 8 years I believe.You have to lease the batteries!!
None of the above have mentioned this and it is expected to be at least £100 a MONTH!!!!!
I was going to buy one of these for my daily commute, love the funky star wars looks even.
But the batteries life is still the killer and nobody will save any money running one of these!
But there are people who can afford it.
If they ban IC engine cars from inner London, it will be your only choice in a couple of years?????
6fire said:
If I've understood the technology correctly, when you drive more than about 50 miles the petrol motor starts and powers the electric motors, but it doesn't charge the batteries. So you end up with an inefficient underpowered car. If the engine powered the motors AND charged the batteries so the car reverted to electric power in say another 100 miles, it would make a lot more sense to me.
You have mis-understood.The car is electricly powered - The propultion power comes fropm driving the front wheels using an electric motor only. Electrical power is fed from the battery system which is charged from 2 sources - Mains electric or the on-board gen-set.
The Get-set is a 1.4 litre petrol unit which is optimsed for electrical power generation. The gen-set cannot provide power direct to the drive motor or provide drive to the wheels. This is the key difference between this technology and the traditional Prius / Jazz type hybred. The optimisation allows for better fuel mapping as the gen-set runs at a steady speed / load that a conventional engine or hybred drive unit cannot.
Euro NCAP tests give 250mpg and 27g CO2 which blasts the tax related tests and will make it popular with user / choosers. The NCAP test allows for a full battery at the start but no need to top up at the end of the drive. Real world figures are closer to 55mpg and 119g which you can comfortably get from a Focus / Golf / Astra at half the cash price.
Interesting technology but I am very disapointed with the real world economy. There are plenty of usable pratical cars of a similar size capable of doing much better. It would be interesting to see where this goes in a couple of years with better engine technology being used.
I'll be looking at these and doing the sums carefully when it comes to co car change time later this year. Coincidentally, my commute each way is just about battery range, and since that represents at least 80% of my 30K+ miles pa it will be interesting to see how the numbers stack up.
I think it looks OK, btw.
I think it looks OK, btw.
Starfighter said:
Euro NCAP tests give 250mpg and 27g CO2 which blasts the tax related tests and will make it popular with user / choosers. The NCAP test allows for a full battery at the start but no need to top up at the end of the drive. Real world figures are closer to 55mpg and 119g which you can comfortably get from a Focus / Golf / Astra at half the cash price.
Interesting technology but I am very disapointed with the real world economy. There are plenty of usable pratical cars of a similar size capable of doing much better. It would be interesting to see where this goes in a couple of years with better engine technology being used.
The roadtest I read suggested that if you had to take it further than about 50 miles, you'd be looking at mid thirties mpg. Which didn't seem that great to me. I'll see if I can find the article again.Interesting technology but I am very disapointed with the real world economy. There are plenty of usable pratical cars of a similar size capable of doing much better. It would be interesting to see where this goes in a couple of years with better engine technology being used.
Starfighter said:
Real world figures are closer to 55mpg and 119g which you can comfortably get from a Focus / Golf / Astra at half the cash price.
I imagine that once the batteries are exhausted, and its running in range extender mode only, that the mpg would be nowhere near that, mid 20's maybe low 30's?It really has to be viewed as an short range electric car, that wont run out if you go over your mileage
Starfighter said:
You have mis-understood.
The Get-set is a 1.4 litre petrol unit which is optimsed for electrical power generation. The gen-set cannot provide power direct to the drive motor or provide drive to the wheels. This is the key difference between this technology and the traditional Prius / Jazz type hybred. The optimisation allows for better fuel mapping as the gen-set runs at a steady speed / load that a conventional engine or hybred drive unit cannot.
Euro NCAP tests give 250mpg and 27g CO2 which blasts the tax related tests and will make it popular with user / choosers. The NCAP test allows for a full battery at the start but no need to top up at the end of the drive. Real world figures are closer to 55mpg and 119g which you can comfortably get from a Focus / Golf / Astra at half the cash price.
The 'GenSet' is a 1.4 twin port out of a Corsa. Nothing fancy at all, it can also direct drive the wheels just like a Prius, they implemented a third clutch to gain 15% MPG in charge sustain cruise rather the electrical transmission of power. The EV DRIVETRAIN is where the R&D has gone, second gen should get lighter batteries and more importantly a proper engine for the application rather than a GM off the shelf unit..The Get-set is a 1.4 litre petrol unit which is optimsed for electrical power generation. The gen-set cannot provide power direct to the drive motor or provide drive to the wheels. This is the key difference between this technology and the traditional Prius / Jazz type hybred. The optimisation allows for better fuel mapping as the gen-set runs at a steady speed / load that a conventional engine or hybred drive unit cannot.
Euro NCAP tests give 250mpg and 27g CO2 which blasts the tax related tests and will make it popular with user / choosers. The NCAP test allows for a full battery at the start but no need to top up at the end of the drive. Real world figures are closer to 55mpg and 119g which you can comfortably get from a Focus / Golf / Astra at half the cash price.
The Prius is way ahead, an Atkinson cycle engine with excellent BSFC, the Jazz can do that with the CVT aswell, the only thing the volt has over either is the large battery for power output and energy content to give range. Prius Plug-in will walk all over it really.
I haven't seen NEDC figure yet, they are much higher than US EPA. For company car users it's 6% BIK isn't it? Which with the P11d doesn't really make it much cheaper than a typical 13% but will save a user fuel cost with shortish commutes, it appearing on a company car list is the only way it makes sense but then there nothing wrong with being an early adopter!
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