Discussion
Jimbo. said:
re. water companies and reservoirs. They want to, but by the time you've found somewhere big enough, open enough, has suitable topography, geology and no NIMBY factor, well...
Well? Well what? Obviously it takes time so that's why they plan ahread. As I mentioned earlier there's one site locted in Abingdon but they won't build it. Kentish said:
I do understand why it is in force but surely a system like Spanish water authorities use is better where once in the last 13 years they decided to have a water curfew between certain hours of the day. Incidentally, the have a lot less rain fall than we do.
With 2/3 the population in double the land area, and that's just national averages, the population density of the South East of the UK is was higher than the national average.Edited by RizzoTheRat on Friday 6th April 10:50
Kentish said:
..
I do understand why it is in force but surely a system like Spanish water authorities use is better where once in the last 13 years they decided to have a water curfew between certain hours of the day.
Sort of could have worked - 1st sunday in every month is a car washing day. And let nature sort out the lawn. And a watering can for plants is not a big hardship.I do understand why it is in force but surely a system like Spanish water authorities use is better where once in the last 13 years they decided to have a water curfew between certain hours of the day.
RichB said:
ell? Well what? Obviously it takes time so that's why they plan ahread. As I mentioned earlier there's one site locted in Abingdon but they won't build it.
"Well..." it's damn near impossible, as they're so tied. Besides, a couple of reservoirs here and there won't make a bit of difference, as there's not been the water to fill them for two years...
Kentish said:
I've just had to re-turf our lawn, I guess that'll be dead inside a week 
Re the car washing; our water pressure is so low it takes over a minute to fill a bucket up.
I usually use one bucket of warm water for shampooing & I can rinse the entire car with a hose in around a minute, so that's 2 buckets worth of water, let's call it 3.
With a bucket alone, I shampoo with one bucket & then use one bucket to rinse the front, one over the roof, one for the rear, one for the nearside, one for the offside & one for the wheels. So that's twice as much needed when throwing buckets of rinsing water over the car compared to the accurate & directional hose.
I do understand why it is in force but surely a system like Spanish water authorities use is better where once in the last 13 years they decided to have a water curfew between certain hours of the day. Incidentally, the have a lot less rain fall than we do.
I agree re washing with buckets; I'd use 5 buckets to get the loose grit off, 1 to shampoo and 5 to rinse afterwards. 11 buckets of water. We have very high pressure and the tap is close by so not a major hardship but a waste compared to the directional power hose with a fine spray! Problem is, the people who make the ruling re car washing assume most people will just use 1 maybe 2 buckets at most since they won't be as fussed about their car's cleaning regime; and they're right. Re the car washing; our water pressure is so low it takes over a minute to fill a bucket up.
I usually use one bucket of warm water for shampooing & I can rinse the entire car with a hose in around a minute, so that's 2 buckets worth of water, let's call it 3.
With a bucket alone, I shampoo with one bucket & then use one bucket to rinse the front, one over the roof, one for the rear, one for the nearside, one for the offside & one for the wheels. So that's twice as much needed when throwing buckets of rinsing water over the car compared to the accurate & directional hose.
I do understand why it is in force but surely a system like Spanish water authorities use is better where once in the last 13 years they decided to have a water curfew between certain hours of the day. Incidentally, the have a lot less rain fall than we do.
I'll most likely wash the cars in the garage out of sight of the neighbours and use the hose sparingly so as to actually save water.
Response from my complaint to South East Water:
I am very sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction with the current water restrictions and hope to address your questions in my e-mail.
1) South East Water’s customer charges are capped so the Company can provide a secure water supply to customers and provide a reasonable return for shareholder’s investments. Where the Company achieves efficiency in this operation, this temporarily results in additional returns for shareholders. This regulatory price setting process works in a five-year cycle, so after five years, efficiencies that resulted in additional returns for shareholders are then provided to customers via lower bills.
In terms of investment, South East Water is currently half way through a £390 million five year programme of service improvements, which will help ensure the water environment is protected while securing customers’ water supplies. We are investing approximately £54 million on reinforcing strategic water mains, £75 million on renewing existing water main, £38 million on refurbishing water treatment works, £45 million on installing meters for customers and £10 million on improving tap water quality.
2) We plan 25 years ahead to ensure there are sufficient supplies to meet the daily needs of both existing and future customers. This plan outlines how we would supply the additional water that is needed from 2010 – 2035, and includes proposals for new water resources, interconnecting water pipelines, further leakage reduction, increased metering and water efficiency programmes. Whilst on the subject of interconnecting pipelines, however, moving large volumes of water over long distances would need massive pipelines and use huge amounts of energy as water, unlike gas and electricity is very heavy. We also need to make sure there aren’t more sustainable and cost-effective ways of supplying water which we should consider first. There are already interconnecting pipelines within the region which enable water companies to work together by transferring water shorter distances and from neighbouring areas where supplies are less stretched.
I can therefore assure you that we are already doing all we can to reduce leakage. We have met or exceeded our leakage targets for the last 10 years and invest £13milllion every year in finding and repairing leaks. We are currently recruiting and training a new team of leak busters, to find and fix leaks, which will increase our resource by another 10 members of staff, bringing us up to a 50 strong force. We are also compulsorily metering the majority of customer supplies over the next nine years to help identify private leakage quickly and ensure that customers are more aware of water wastage.
All leaks are fixed on a priority basis according to a number of factors including the risk to health and safety and the amount of water running to waste, and where it’s going (gushing into the road or running directly into a drain). This means there may be another leak close by that needs more urgent attention; however we endeavour to fix all leaks within seven working days, with many being done within 48 hours.
We constantly monitor the flow of water through our mains network and look for any unusually high or low flows that could indicate a leak. When a leak is identified, we use a combination of traditional and state of the art leak detection equipment to find its exact location and then the repair starts. The cause of most leaks can be related to the condition of the water mains. Ageing iron pipes are vulnerable to corrosive clay soils and earth movement. We also have a dedicated leak line and are encouraging our customers to report any leaks they see. During 2012/13 South East Water’s investment includes £28 million on upgrading and maintaining the water mains network, much of which involves replacing old pipes which burst or leak.
3) Making drinking water from seawater is possible. In fact, South East Water trialled a desalination plant in Newhaven, Sussex, and in Herne Bay, Kent during a previous drought to see if it is a sustainable way, both environmentally and in terms of cost, of permanently producing additional water resources. We found that while some results were encouraging, further studies showed the cost and energy required to build and operate the plant, meant that it is not always the most sustainable and cost-effective way of producing more water. At this stage there are alternative options available to us to ensure supplies are secured but this may be considered in the future.
4) Turning to your question about the water charges being due in full during the ban, our statutory obligation is to provide water for essential domestic purposes, which is defined as drinking, cleaning, cooking and sanitation. Water usage outside the home is classified as non-essential and as such is not included within this definition. Therefore, I regret that we cannot compensate our customers for the ban, as the Company has not failed in its statutory duty to provide water. We do, however, apologise that these restrictions have become necessary.
In conclusion, we are conscious that many of our customers will be unhappy with the ban and I apologise for the inconvenience the restrictions may cause you. I hope, however, that my e-mail helps to explain that we do take all our duties seriously and have been doing everything we can to maintain water supplies. Our company website www.southeastwater.co.uk is being regularly updated with news on current restrictions and concessions and should help address any further questions you have on the subject.
Thank you for taking the time to raise this matter with us.
I am very sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction with the current water restrictions and hope to address your questions in my e-mail.
1) South East Water’s customer charges are capped so the Company can provide a secure water supply to customers and provide a reasonable return for shareholder’s investments. Where the Company achieves efficiency in this operation, this temporarily results in additional returns for shareholders. This regulatory price setting process works in a five-year cycle, so after five years, efficiencies that resulted in additional returns for shareholders are then provided to customers via lower bills.
In terms of investment, South East Water is currently half way through a £390 million five year programme of service improvements, which will help ensure the water environment is protected while securing customers’ water supplies. We are investing approximately £54 million on reinforcing strategic water mains, £75 million on renewing existing water main, £38 million on refurbishing water treatment works, £45 million on installing meters for customers and £10 million on improving tap water quality.
2) We plan 25 years ahead to ensure there are sufficient supplies to meet the daily needs of both existing and future customers. This plan outlines how we would supply the additional water that is needed from 2010 – 2035, and includes proposals for new water resources, interconnecting water pipelines, further leakage reduction, increased metering and water efficiency programmes. Whilst on the subject of interconnecting pipelines, however, moving large volumes of water over long distances would need massive pipelines and use huge amounts of energy as water, unlike gas and electricity is very heavy. We also need to make sure there aren’t more sustainable and cost-effective ways of supplying water which we should consider first. There are already interconnecting pipelines within the region which enable water companies to work together by transferring water shorter distances and from neighbouring areas where supplies are less stretched.
I can therefore assure you that we are already doing all we can to reduce leakage. We have met or exceeded our leakage targets for the last 10 years and invest £13milllion every year in finding and repairing leaks. We are currently recruiting and training a new team of leak busters, to find and fix leaks, which will increase our resource by another 10 members of staff, bringing us up to a 50 strong force. We are also compulsorily metering the majority of customer supplies over the next nine years to help identify private leakage quickly and ensure that customers are more aware of water wastage.
All leaks are fixed on a priority basis according to a number of factors including the risk to health and safety and the amount of water running to waste, and where it’s going (gushing into the road or running directly into a drain). This means there may be another leak close by that needs more urgent attention; however we endeavour to fix all leaks within seven working days, with many being done within 48 hours.
We constantly monitor the flow of water through our mains network and look for any unusually high or low flows that could indicate a leak. When a leak is identified, we use a combination of traditional and state of the art leak detection equipment to find its exact location and then the repair starts. The cause of most leaks can be related to the condition of the water mains. Ageing iron pipes are vulnerable to corrosive clay soils and earth movement. We also have a dedicated leak line and are encouraging our customers to report any leaks they see. During 2012/13 South East Water’s investment includes £28 million on upgrading and maintaining the water mains network, much of which involves replacing old pipes which burst or leak.
3) Making drinking water from seawater is possible. In fact, South East Water trialled a desalination plant in Newhaven, Sussex, and in Herne Bay, Kent during a previous drought to see if it is a sustainable way, both environmentally and in terms of cost, of permanently producing additional water resources. We found that while some results were encouraging, further studies showed the cost and energy required to build and operate the plant, meant that it is not always the most sustainable and cost-effective way of producing more water. At this stage there are alternative options available to us to ensure supplies are secured but this may be considered in the future.
4) Turning to your question about the water charges being due in full during the ban, our statutory obligation is to provide water for essential domestic purposes, which is defined as drinking, cleaning, cooking and sanitation. Water usage outside the home is classified as non-essential and as such is not included within this definition. Therefore, I regret that we cannot compensate our customers for the ban, as the Company has not failed in its statutory duty to provide water. We do, however, apologise that these restrictions have become necessary.
In conclusion, we are conscious that many of our customers will be unhappy with the ban and I apologise for the inconvenience the restrictions may cause you. I hope, however, that my e-mail helps to explain that we do take all our duties seriously and have been doing everything we can to maintain water supplies. Our company website www.southeastwater.co.uk is being regularly updated with news on current restrictions and concessions and should help address any further questions you have on the subject.
Thank you for taking the time to raise this matter with us.
Willy Nilly said:
J4CKO said:
If arid countries manage with a fraction of our rain, our water companies really need to pull their fingers out of their arses and worry about supplying water, not just profit and dividends
How many "arid" countries or countries with the same rain fall as the south and east have the same population density as the south east of England does?Yes, the water mains have some leakage issues. Most summers I pump up to 10,000,000 gallons of water through ageing PVC pipes. EVERY year we get at least 3 bursts. The pipes are 6 inches in diameter and when they burst there is a hellova mess. But, we (I keep them)keep records of water use, so I've a pretty good idea of what we loose. When there is a burst the machine normally senses low pressure and switches off. Some times it weeps and the first we know is a puddle. On a burst we might loose a few cubic meters of water out of the burst and a few more from draining the line down. But considering we will pump 35 cu/hr and up to 400 cu/meters over a night run, what we loose is f
k all as a percentage of a days out put and we probably loose more to evaporation on the reservoir by quite a margin than all the bursts combined. Like the water companies it's better to react to the leaks and fix them as they happen than change all of the line in one go and we only have a few miles of it. Not thousands of miles.
People keep saying about storing it and pumping it from all over the country. This will be great until things start getting dug up next door to them. You can't just put reservoirs anywhere. There are a few engineering problems to over come first, like soil type for a start. It took us about 6 years of f
king and being fked about to build a bit of a pond for 10,000,000 gallons, which took up 6 acres of land. Now scale that up to serve a town like Cambridge. Then add all the infrastructure in to service it. It's a big project.I cannot understand why people are getting their knickers in such a twist about not being able to wash the bloody car, or water the f
king grass. If it's dry the car won't need washing. If the grass is brown, it doesn't need cutting and will grow back when it rains again. All people have to worry about is a dirty car and a brown lawn, they should think themselves very lucky. Jimbo. said:
RichB said:
ell? Well what? Obviously it takes time so that's why they plan ahread. As I mentioned earlier there's one site locted in Abingdon but they won't build it.
"Well..." it's damn near impossible, as they're so tied. Besides, a couple of reservoirs here and there won't make a bit of difference, as there's not been the water to fill them for two years...
J4CKO said:
I am not bothered about car washing, I am bothered about a company that makes huge profits and pays dividends to shareholders telling me what I can and cannot do because they aren't investing enough money to make the infrastructure work there will always be leaks but I see the same wet patches on roads for months, years which is clean water welling up, you charge people £800 a year like I pay you set certain expectations, especially when it goes up year on year. The population density is actually customer density so a lot of money coming from these areas, no excuses, it needs sorting, we are one of the wettest countries in terms of rainfall on the planet.
There was a man on the radio yesterday from one of the water companies talking about the restrictions. He was asked about the leaks and responded that it costs £400 per meter to lay new pipes. IIRC the water companies are limited to how much they can charge, so they have a finite supply of money to replace the mains. I'm sure if the customers were happy to pay whatever it took to renew the leaking mains, the water companies would be happy to do the work even though it would cause quite some disruption and and take years.
Then would fixing the leaks sort the supply problems out? It's likely that it would just be a (very expensive) political exercise to tell the public that they had done their bit. It still wouldn't solve the problem that is we haven't had much rain for the last 2 winters, demand is increasing and no body wants their house to be knocked down to build a reservoir.
Personally, I think everyone should be on a meter and they just crank the price up when water runs short.
Mermaid said:
Willy Nilly said:
...Personally, I think everyone should be on a meter and they just crank the price up when water runs short.
And so long as there is some Government oversight, that could work - a consumption tax that will shape people's habits for the long term.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff