Cars that sold better than they deserved

[Devil2575]

The Pits said:

That is the point of this thread. Westlife is HUGELY popular but that doesn't mean it must be good music. Radiohead are also hugely popular but from a musical point of view and mine, more deserving of their success.

The Corsa is Westlife and the Mini is Radiohead. That's why it's on the list.

Define good?

Good is purely subjective.

You could argue that Westlife is good music because it brings pleasure to a great many people. This is the point of music, well that and to make money, which Westlife have done.
By the same token you could argue that a technically brilliant piece of music that no one listens too is not good music because it fails to bring anyone pleasure or make money.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't any good

[Devil2575]

The Pits said:

Hyundai Scoupe. Absolutely.

Alpinas? Each one seems worse in every way than the BMW M equivalent. A supposed performance arm that can't match the factory efforts. You have to be an individualist in the extreme to want one.

Alpina isn't a performance Arm of BMW.

They are not competing with BMWs M division.

[E38Ross]

Crafty_ said:

kentmotorcompany said:

Crafty_ said:

A3,A4,A6. Simply because people buy them for the badge, they are no better (maybe worse) than any other car out there.

Why the hate for the corsa/astra ? inexpensive, reliable transport. The badge hate is getting a bit pathetic I think.

The irony is strong with this one.

Not really. I have two friends who both work for the dealers of the aforementioned brands. One spends his time pulling 20-40k mile engines and replacing them because just about every engineering tolerance you can imagine is way out, if he's not doing that he's battling with recall lists as long as your arm.
The other one doesn't.
I'll leave you to guess which one works on which cars.

Apologies if my preference for a working vehicle doesn't fit the correct fashion of the moment.

vauxhall corsas are dreadful cars. been in pretty much all incarnations of it over the years and have always found myself preferring cars such as the seat ibiza. nicer interiors, seem more refined and more fun to drive.

[The Wookie]

The Pits said:

This car should have been the new 365 GTB/4 Daytona. In terms of looks and noise it doesn't even come close. A ferrari V12 should be a musical wailing thing but the 550 V12 didn't much care for revving beyond 5k. I attended the ferrari pilota course at the time and the instructors told us to change up at 5500 for our timed laps. In constrast they advised us to ring out every last rev of the 355s. That's fine in a merc or bmw but sacriledge for a Ferrari V12. I still haven't heard one make a particularly inspiring noise. It's a hugely capable car but then again so is a Merc CL500. A ferrari needs to go far beyond that deliver on an emotional level, especially a V12 ferrari as they cost the earth. It remains a huge disappointment to me. But sold in huge numbers.

Well for a start in terms of being the new Daytona you're right, it's not because it actually handles! One of the best balanced and benign cars I've experienced and one that's involving and actually makes you feel as if you're driving it.

Noise is the weakest part of the 550 admittedly, but the two i've driven certainly have no problem with revs and will quite happily spin strong right around the clock all the way to the near 8000rpm limiter.

In terms of looks I think they're very pretty and understated, although I know that many people see them as bland. Personally though, I prefer the understated Ferrari GT's of yesteryear rather than the occasionally crass (IMHO) Lambo baiting kit that was being churned out in the late 70's and 80's.

Fair enough if you were disappointed, but I've always found it one of the best all round, proper drivers cars that Ferrari have built.

[E38Ross]

Devil2575 said:

The Pits said:

Hyundai Scoupe. Absolutely.

Alpinas? Each one seems worse in every way than the BMW M equivalent. A supposed performance arm that can't match the factory efforts. You have to be an individualist in the extreme to want one.

Alpina isn't a performance Arm of BMW.

They are not competing with BMWs M division.

exactly. think of them as more "improved dynamics and speed of SE models" and they make much more sense.

[whoami]

Devil2575 said:

Thread should simply be titled 'Cars I don't like'.

[del 203]

swerni said:

Up for a beer soon?

That has to be the most stupid question EVER on PH!!!!

[The Pits]

whoami said:

No, as previously stated I owned an Escort RS Turbo, series 2. I liked it plenty but I don't think it was deserving of the RS badge nor the considerable sales success it enjoyed.

This thread also is the corollary of another thread entitled 'cars that deserved to sell better' posted at the same time. I was interested to see which of the two would spark more debate. This being PH the negative one (this one) is streets ahead! Up to now I have to say I'm surprised how many people appear to broadly agree with my purely subjective view. There are also plenty of cars I don't happen to like in the 'cars that deserved to sell better thread'.

Edited by The Pits on Wednesday 18th April 12:56

[s m]

The Pits said:

s m said:

What was much better about the earlier shape?

Apologies, Series 2 Escort RS Turbo is what I meant.

In 1984 when the first one was launched 132bhp was not too shabby. The series 2 was still going 14 years later with the same power output! The 1988 Astra GTE 16v blew it into the weeds and it's 2.0 16v engine is still a highly regarded engine, lightyears ahead of the wheezy CVH.

I had one and I thought it looked great at the time but it offered pretty weak performance. I can remember struggling to keep up with an Escort 1.6 Ghia!

14 years later? From 1984 that extrapolates up to 1998??? Who was making the Series 2 Escort RS Turbo in 1998? H-reg were pretty much the last of the line iirc ( although I'm sure there's a J-reg lurking somewhere )

[The Pits]

Apologies, they were still being produced until 1990 though, 2 years after the Astra GTE 16V came out. I still stand by my point though.

[Rude-boy]

Adz The Rat said:

I disagree, I love the MK3 GTI's, especially in 16v form.

I would rather have a 16v GTI than a VR6 actually.

Same here. Had a 16v and my brother had a couple of Vr6's which I drove. I've also driven a 8v as well.

All day every day I'll take living at 4k-6k rpm over an asmatic old lump with enough tourque but no poke or something that understears like an oil tanker and drinks like it should be towing one.

That said I do have a yearning for either a 16v or a Vr6 for the run to work and back.

[richb77]

hunt_the_fox said:

Audi A3. Simply hateful, bought by tools who can't drive.

Yup!

The day my little brother picked up his company one (he popped over to show it off) he forgot how to use the indicators and what lane discipline was!

I had to tt him about the ears when we stopped.

[900T-R]

I'm driving one now in anticipation of my new company motor. It's er... alright. Can't see the 'premium' in it... it's a Golf V with a goatee, natch. Boggo 1.6 litre N/A means it's rather short geared to make the driver believe it can, just about, pull the skin of a rice pudding - 4,000 in top equals an indicated 130 km/h (81 mph) where same in my N/A Cooper would result in an indicated 161 km/h, or just over the ton in Imperial money.

[s m]

The Pits said:

s m said:

What was much better about the earlier shape?

Apologies, Series 2 Escort RS Turbo is what I meant.

In 1984 when the first one was launched 132bhp was not too shabby. The series 2 was still going 14 years later with the same power output! The 1988 Astra GTE 16v blew it into the weeds and it's 2.0 16v engine is still a highly regarded engine, lightyears ahead of the wheezy CVH.

I had one and I thought it looked great at the time but it offered pretty weak performance. I can remember struggling to keep up with an Escort 1.6 Ghia!

Fifth Gear had an Astra GTE 16v up against an RS Turbo Series 2 on one of their 'shootouts', Tiff driving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf214j7ev1k

Did enjoy my Astra though

[fluffnik]

The Pits said:

Yup Alpina is totally lost on me.

Don't get it at all.

They're proper Grand Touring cars; drive one to Poland for lunch and you'll get them...

The Pits said:

What cosmetic changes there are are entirely for the worse in my purely subjective view.

The aero works, the wheels are light and the stripes and upholstery are entirely optional.

[melvster]

The Wookie said:

The Pits said:

Ferrari 550 Maranello

Eh??

I was thinking that, i have never read/heard a bad word about the 550 regarding the driving experience, as for running costs, that maybe a different story

[Steameh]

Crafty_ said:

A3,A4,A6. Simply because people buy them for the badge, they are no better (maybe worse) than any other car out there.
.

With respect to the A6 its interior quality. Much nicer place to be than a similar generation Mondeo, plus the engine options help.