Is petrol finally making a come back?
Discussion
NadiR said:
Most Astra's sold from 2004 are petrol. The Astra isn't exactly a slow selling car now, is it?
There are just over 9000 2005 or newer Astras for sale on Autotrader right now.Staggeringly almost 70% are petrol! A similar story with the Ford Focus.
But swap to Ford Mondeo for the same period and almost 75% are diesel...
BMW 5 Series is even worse. Only 10% of sub 7 year old 5 Series on Autotrader are petrol.
Fox- said:
There are just over 9000 2005 or newer Astras for sale on Autotrader right now.
Staggeringly almost 70% are petrol! A similar story with the Ford Focus.
But swap to Ford Mondeo for the same period and almost 75% are diesel...
BMW 5 Series is even worse. Only 10% of sub 7 year old 5 Series on Autotrader are petrol.
Private v Fleet sales, and I don't know about VX but Ford dealers seemed to have an endless stream of 1.6 Petrol MK2 Focuses with delivery or very low mileage available for the whole time it was on sale. Staggeringly almost 70% are petrol! A similar story with the Ford Focus.
But swap to Ford Mondeo for the same period and almost 75% are diesel...
BMW 5 Series is even worse. Only 10% of sub 7 year old 5 Series on Autotrader are petrol.
Petrol never left me as the first choice in cars. I drive own and cars because I enjoy them. Not because it saves money.
I cover relatively low mileage nowadays probably 10,000 a year but I still drive seven different cars all petrol (some unleaded).
In my working days I always drove petrol cars even when doing 50,000 a year in a 4.2 John Eales Range Rover. Then in various Rover V8's, SD1 etc. Wonderful long distance rides. Frankly I found the sheer fun and lazy power and feeling of security these cruisers offered, worth every penny.
I have never seen the downside of petrol when weighed against the downsides of diesel. Which are apparent to all.
Unless you are running very high mileages with delivery fleets or taxis when I can see advantages. I personally dislike the stuff.
I cover relatively low mileage nowadays probably 10,000 a year but I still drive seven different cars all petrol (some unleaded).
In my working days I always drove petrol cars even when doing 50,000 a year in a 4.2 John Eales Range Rover. Then in various Rover V8's, SD1 etc. Wonderful long distance rides. Frankly I found the sheer fun and lazy power and feeling of security these cruisers offered, worth every penny.
I have never seen the downside of petrol when weighed against the downsides of diesel. Which are apparent to all.
Unless you are running very high mileages with delivery fleets or taxis when I can see advantages. I personally dislike the stuff.
h. Petrol over Dalziel always for me..couldn't really be bothered with fuel consumption and will get out of the RR TDV8 ASAP. It is fantastic, but I miss my old RRs petrol V8..if I ever really had to run a Diesel car I would be very unhappy. It's just not the same experience, and I couldn't care less about torque in the abstract sense, driving is so much more than that..long live petrol, at any price..
RobCrezz said:
Fox- said:
Sadly I'd imagine they will be as much trouble as the diesel engines are now.
It isn't the fact a diesel was diesel that made them a reliability nightmare, it's all the extra crap bolted on to give them the levels of performance and economy which made them more attractive than the 90's stuff.
Now the petrol engines are getting the same stuff - result? Economical engines... with plenty to go wrong.
No, shouldn't be as bad. Although some of the tech is similar, petrols still won't have the super high compression ratios and boost levels. Also they won't need dmf and dpf.It isn't the fact a diesel was diesel that made them a reliability nightmare, it's all the extra crap bolted on to give them the levels of performance and economy which made them more attractive than the 90's stuff.
Now the petrol engines are getting the same stuff - result? Economical engines... with plenty to go wrong.
Petrol will also likely be getting the DPF at some point as the regs begin to crack down on particulates by counting instead of weighing. It is after all the very very ultra fine particulates that supposedly cause damage but they are so light you cannot really weigh them.
Plus side is though, it's probably going to take a very long time to load a DPF on a petrol engine. We have JLR's petrol turbo they put in the evoque for testing just how long.
Petrols are also getting high pressure direct injection. However the pressures are a good order of magnitude lower than diesels. Think 150 bar and not 1500-2000+ bar.
Some people are worried about the fairly high BMEP of these downsized engines.... But Mahler have essentially been running a 1.0 3-cyl turbo prototype since day one with no issues apparently and that thing has some high BMEP for a petrol engine... Getting into the lower end of what diesel runs. But like I said they have had no problems and the engines basically a one off test donkey. As long as the engine is designed from the get go around these pressures it'll be fine. The ford 1.0t uses lower BMEP than this Mahler one as well. Overall from what I have seen and heard from Mahler, I don't think there will be much issue... But it will be interesting to see what these cars are like once out of warranty and the first owners have dumped them in the second hand market.
I have to say though 3 bangers sound quite nice. Had a 107 boot it past me today and I thought it sounded lovely... So bring it on! A fiesta with that 125bhp eco boost will be a brilliant thing!
Diesel has its place but IMO Diesel has only been pursued because its been easier to drive down CO2 emissions, rather than petrol engines. Not to mention, average MPG benefits.
However, it does seem petrol technology is moving forward again (fortunately). Personally, for the ECO brigade, I'd like to see Hydrogen start to make some forward moving.
However, it does seem petrol technology is moving forward again (fortunately). Personally, for the ECO brigade, I'd like to see Hydrogen start to make some forward moving.
vapourtrail said:
Ssshhhhh! The general public haven't realised this yet, keeps petrol cars and the fuel itself cheaper!
Until they all run out.There are 200+ 530d M Sport F10's for sale on the BMW site. There are zero 530i M Sport F10's for sale on the BMW site. There is one 528i M Sport F10 for sale on the BMW site.
the TFSI engines found in Vag cars these days are brilliant, turbo boost just when you need it and supercharged do its not bogged down, brilliant idea
diesels can never truly be a performance car, nothing nothing boooooooooooooooooooooost oh run out of revs, rinse and repeat, sure they are fast but not enjoyable.
a skoda fabia vrs isnt as fun to drive as the polo gti of the same era.
diesels can never truly be a performance car, nothing nothing boooooooooooooooooooooost oh run out of revs, rinse and repeat, sure they are fast but not enjoyable.
a skoda fabia vrs isnt as fun to drive as the polo gti of the same era.
Edited by okie592 on Wednesday 11th April 20:39
Superhoop said:
What about it? Are you suggesting that DPF's, common rail injectors and DMF's only fail as a result of high boost pressure?
Are you 300bhp/ton's brother?
Are you 300bhp/ton's brother?
Not at all, but pressures being higher require stronger and more expensive parts. I don't think fuel pressures in petrols are anywhere near as high as diesels yet either.
Not saying that petrol won't get more complex, just not as much as modern diesels.
RobCrezz said:
Not at all, but pressures being higher require stronger and more expensive parts. I don't think fuel pressures in petrols are anywhere near as high as diesels yet either.
Not saying that petrol won't get more complex, just not as much as modern diesels.
i drive a petrol in a manor that i believe is reffered to on PH as "making progress" the combined figure for my car is 47 and the urban figure is 35.
and i average 43 to the gallon on a mix of A and B roads witch i am more than happy with, i bet if i drove like a fanny i would easily get the 47.
doubt ill get as close to the manufactures figures when i change to a bigger heavier diesel
and i average 43 to the gallon on a mix of A and B roads witch i am more than happy with, i bet if i drove like a fanny i would easily get the 47.
doubt ill get as close to the manufactures figures when i change to a bigger heavier diesel
Fox- said:
There are just over 9000 2005 or newer Astras for sale on Autotrader right now.
Staggeringly almost 70% are petrol! A similar story with the Ford Focus.
But swap to Ford Mondeo for the same period and almost 75% are diesel...
IMO one of the main reasons for this is the weight of modern cars. A Focus/Astra with a 1.6 will still give acceptable performance and mpg especially only one or two up.Staggeringly almost 70% are petrol! A similar story with the Ford Focus.
But swap to Ford Mondeo for the same period and almost 75% are diesel...
Move up a class and the increase in size/weight combined with usually transporting kids about and you need the diesel. Even a 2l petrol in the latest Mondeo will feel flat so you'll be thrashing it everywhere and only get 25mpg.
The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars. What does the latest Mondeo weigh in at? A guy a work has an estate one and it's huge. Must be 1600kg easy.
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