Is petrol finally making a come back?
Discussion
Vladimir said:
Using BMW, the 320d is a lot more reliable than the 320i, same with the 335d over the 335i. And the run out 330i over the 330d.
For confirmation, don't search the internerd (well you can if you want). Speak to a real life BMW engineer.
Or an owner.I wouldn't touch a BMW direct injection engine with a bargepole.For confirmation, don't search the internerd (well you can if you want). Speak to a real life BMW engineer.
Drive Blind said:
Move up a class and the increase in size/weight combined with usually transporting kids about and you need the diesel. Even a 2l petrol in the latest Mondeo will feel flat so you'll be thrashing it everywhere and only get 25mpg.
The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars. What does the latest Mondeo weigh in at? A guy a work has an estate one and it's huge. Must be 1600kg easy.
My car is 1600kg and I never feel it needs a diesel...The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars. What does the latest Mondeo weigh in at? A guy a work has an estate one and it's huge. Must be 1600kg easy.
Drive Blind said:
The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars.
I find it actually suits the fact that average Joe thinks its fast because even if he drove a 33oi he would find it slow due to an inherent dumbness folk have when it comes to revving a motor. Fox- said:
My car is 1600kg and I never feel it needs a diesel...
Similar story here. My wife's new Ford S-Max must weight more than 1700kg, it has a 2.0L petrol engine which is averaging over 32mpg without having to drive like Miss Daisy, and at no point in the last 8 weeks of ownership have we felt that we should have picked the diesel. Ok, it helps that it produces 240hp and decent torque but still.........Drive Blind said:
IMO one of the main reasons for this is the weight of modern cars. A Focus/Astra with a 1.6 will still give acceptable performance and mpg especially only one or two up.
Move up a class and the increase in size/weight combined with usually transporting kids about and you need the diesel. Even a 2l petrol in the latest Mondeo will feel flat so you'll be thrashing it everywhere and only get 25mpg.
The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars. What does the latest Mondeo weigh in at? A guy a work has an estate one and it's huge. Must be 1600kg easy.
The thing is, that the big torque is coming from the turbocharging mostly, so a modern turbo petrol will give you similar effect, its not unique to diesel.Move up a class and the increase in size/weight combined with usually transporting kids about and you need the diesel. Even a 2l petrol in the latest Mondeo will feel flat so you'll be thrashing it everywhere and only get 25mpg.
The low rpm torque peak of turbo diesels suits the ever growing mass of cars. What does the latest Mondeo weigh in at? A guy a work has an estate one and it's huge. Must be 1600kg easy.
These new small capacity petrols get their power by being turboed. What are they going to be like from low revs?
One of the worst characteristics of modern turbo-diesels is their absence of bottom end torque. It would be a shame if petrols went the same way.
Still, at least they'll have a few revs to play with, unlike DERVs.
One of the worst characteristics of modern turbo-diesels is their absence of bottom end torque. It would be a shame if petrols went the same way.
Still, at least they'll have a few revs to play with, unlike DERVs.
okie592 said:
diesels can never truly be a performance car, nothing nothing boooooooooooooooooooooost oh run out of revs, rinse and repeat,
This is never an issue for those who choose wisely. AnotherClarkey said:
And of course there is always the Prius. A new approach to using petrol, certainly, but a petrol car nonetheless and more economical than any remotely comparable diesel.
Hmm. There are Golf diesels out there doing mpgs in the 60-80 range. Fwiw, this survey of the best value cars to buy and run still has a healthy sprinkling of diesels.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/picturegalleri...
(Can't find a simple list of the cars though, just a stupid gallery).
Oops, tell a lie http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/2012/Mar...
Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 11th April 23:31
Had a new merc e200 petrol the other week as a hire car. I think its only a 1.8 turbo petrol but gave a surprising turn of speed. Certainly didnt feel underpowered as you'd expect and felt like a deisel torque wise.
Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
Aeroresh said:
and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
Exactly the same happened to me when I bought our BMW - had to get salesman to show me that other cars sounded as bad at tickover.Aeroresh said:
Had a new merc e200 petrol the other week as a hire car. I think its only a 1.8 turbo petrol but gave a surprising turn of speed. Certainly didnt feel underpowered as you'd expect and felt like a deisel torque wise.
Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
That's interesting, because it continues to back up my belief that the only tangible difference between petrol and diesel, when used in ordinary cars, is that you have to stop and stand in queues to pay for fuel more often - and that is the one and only real and tangible difference between the two. Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
Nothing else amounts to much imo, although I must admit that the complexity of current and forthcoming diesels does worry me a tad.
Whether the complexity of forthcoming petrols is going to be much less I'm really not sure... but then again the petrol fuel itself is much cheaper now and so that would appeal if I were tight.
heebeegeetee said:
AnotherClarkey said:
And of course there is always the Prius. A new approach to using petrol, certainly, but a petrol car nonetheless and more economical than any remotely comparable diesel.
Hmm. There are Golf diesels out there doing mpgs in the 60-80 range. Edited by AnotherClarkey on Thursday 12th April 13:12
Edited by AnotherClarkey on Thursday 12th April 13:14
Aeroresh said:
Had a new merc e200 petrol the other week as a hire car. I think its only a 1.8 turbo petrol but gave a surprising turn of speed. Certainly didnt feel underpowered as you'd expect and felt like a deisel torque wise.
Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
It was broken then! I've just bought one and coming from a C220 cdi and an E220 cdi prior to that I have to check the rev counter to see if the engine is running, it's near silent!Having said that, I couldn't eek more than 30 mpg out of it over a tank full and almost more importantly it sounded more deisely than my e350 cdi to the point where I had to ring the hire company to confirm its fuel before I filled it up!
As a comparison my e350 cdi normally averages between 40 and 45 mpg
It is only 1.8 turbo but has a decent 185bhp (can be remapped to 205bhp as thats what you get in the E250 which is the same engine), I'm getting 30mpg after owning for 2 weeks but the drive of the petrol is worth every penny of the extra money spent against the diesel's (slightly, I only got 40mpg) better mpg.
AnotherClarkey said:
I did some digging for another thread yesterday and real world data has the 105hp Golf Bluemotion beating the Prius for MPG by 0.2% on average. Factor in the higher cost of diesel (in this country at least) and the (more spacious, 30% more powerful) Prius looks like a better bet. For any indivdual Golf doing 60-80mpg there is a similarly economical Prius driven by a similar eco driving obsessive.
Isn't it 99PS Prius v 105 PS Golf? Prius also has lower specific output and of course far fewer torques and that means everything. 
I was just responding to the diesels not being remotely comparable comment. Fwiw I quite like the Prius.
heebeegeetee said:
Isn't it 99PS Prius v 105 PS Golf? Prius also has lower specific output and of course far fewer torques and that means everything.
I was just responding to the diesels not being remotely comparable comment. Fwiw I quite like the Prius.
And I quite like diesels too - my point was that the Prius is more economical (to fuel) than any remotely comparable diesel and even when you pick a smaller, less powerful, manual diesel like a golf Bluemotion the Prius is level pegging.I was just responding to the diesels not being remotely comparable comment. Fwiw I quite like the Prius.
The power thing is interesting because, as you say the Prius engine only has 99bhp and relatively low torque (142Nm) but it can also use the 80bhp, 207Nm electric motor. These outputs don't just add together but Toyota quote 134bhp overall - I am not sure how the total torque figure shapes up.The Golf has 103bhp and 250Nm by comparison.
I'm not sure petrol ever really went away tbh. Diesel has a much higher market penetration now than just ten years ago for sure but according to one article I saw recently, 2011 was the first year where over 50% of new car registrations in the UK were diesels and I'm guessing most of them were fleet sales.
A quick look on AT shows theres almost 360,000 used cars for sale in the UK today with 209,000 being petrol and 147,000 being diesel. Limit it to cars no older than five years and its pretty even at around 100,000 each - interestingly over 9% of the cars for sale are more than ten years old.
Even looking at cars up to five years old, it all seems to come down to the type of car. Theres twice as many petrol hatchbacks than diesel but there's over 15,000 diesel saloons compared to less than 4,000 petrol saloons. Diesel has fared very well in the large car sector. Theres 9 times more diesel 4x4s than petrol 4x4s.
Looking at alternatives theres over 600 LPG cars, around 1,900 hybrids and only 21 electric cars.
Is petrol making a comeback? Well it never really went away to be honest.
A quick look on AT shows theres almost 360,000 used cars for sale in the UK today with 209,000 being petrol and 147,000 being diesel. Limit it to cars no older than five years and its pretty even at around 100,000 each - interestingly over 9% of the cars for sale are more than ten years old.
Even looking at cars up to five years old, it all seems to come down to the type of car. Theres twice as many petrol hatchbacks than diesel but there's over 15,000 diesel saloons compared to less than 4,000 petrol saloons. Diesel has fared very well in the large car sector. Theres 9 times more diesel 4x4s than petrol 4x4s.
Looking at alternatives theres over 600 LPG cars, around 1,900 hybrids and only 21 electric cars.
Is petrol making a comeback? Well it never really went away to be honest.
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