RE: 'World's fastest Lotus' crashed
Discussion
I think its also that Americans, and to a lesser extent, Canadians don't like having the mick taken out of them, or don't really respond so well to anything but sycophantic praise when it comes to their cars.
2 cases in point:
My neighbor, when I used to live with my parents a few years ago, had an SL65 that he replaced with a manual DBS. And he hardly drove the SL in anger either, in fact he used to get in my way quite a few times. After he bought the DBS (and he's about 60yo), I complimented the car and said it was awesome, and so much better than the SL, which was a nice car but just a bit heavy, and really just a totted up SL350. Was there a bit of snarkiness in my remark? Yes there was admittedly. He retorted back that the SL was a v. nice car blah blah. I wasn't going to get into an argument with him so I left it. I'v been in conversations with acquaintances where they've taken the pi55 out of me and made sarcastic remarks about a bike or car i used to own and I enjoy joining in on the fun. Your car isn't your bloody wife so why take it so seriously???
At the Goodwood Revival, was chatting with a bloke with a Caterham R500 and a Ducati 916 Senna. Asked him how the Caterham compared with the Ducati. Bloke responds that he's owned the Ducati for a while, but doesn't ride it v. much as whenever he really starts to press on it terrifies and scares the $hit out of him,etc. wheras in the Caterham a bit of wheelspin, getting the back out etc., is much more manageable and fun. Then he joked about how much of a pansy he was. An American or a Canadian would NEVER admit that their bike terrified them. Ever. There's just less pi55-taking and self-deprecating humor in our culture in general, sadly. [and yes I am aware that there are exceptions to this rule, but its just based on my limited experience].
2 cases in point:
My neighbor, when I used to live with my parents a few years ago, had an SL65 that he replaced with a manual DBS. And he hardly drove the SL in anger either, in fact he used to get in my way quite a few times. After he bought the DBS (and he's about 60yo), I complimented the car and said it was awesome, and so much better than the SL, which was a nice car but just a bit heavy, and really just a totted up SL350. Was there a bit of snarkiness in my remark? Yes there was admittedly. He retorted back that the SL was a v. nice car blah blah. I wasn't going to get into an argument with him so I left it. I'v been in conversations with acquaintances where they've taken the pi55 out of me and made sarcastic remarks about a bike or car i used to own and I enjoy joining in on the fun. Your car isn't your bloody wife so why take it so seriously???
At the Goodwood Revival, was chatting with a bloke with a Caterham R500 and a Ducati 916 Senna. Asked him how the Caterham compared with the Ducati. Bloke responds that he's owned the Ducati for a while, but doesn't ride it v. much as whenever he really starts to press on it terrifies and scares the $hit out of him,etc. wheras in the Caterham a bit of wheelspin, getting the back out etc., is much more manageable and fun. Then he joked about how much of a pansy he was. An American or a Canadian would NEVER admit that their bike terrified them. Ever. There's just less pi55-taking and self-deprecating humor in our culture in general, sadly. [and yes I am aware that there are exceptions to this rule, but its just based on my limited experience].
the ronin said:
After reading this crap for ten pages this is me at my mellowist..... Have a go at the guys making the personal atacks father...
Hello Frank, It's not clear in the thread, but did you build the car/tune the engine yourself? Pretty impressive engineering whoever did it. Just wondering if it was you or a tuning house.
Runs and hides.
Zero 1 said:
+1. The only problem is you can't say anything to Ronin without him going insane. It would be nice to discuss facts about what makes a car fast in the mountains or on a hill climb stage, but it's impossible with this guy to say anything but "your car is the absolute best / fastest / most insane lotus ever created by man, no F1 car or hill climb car could ever touch you" without getting your head ripped off.
The reality of the situation is on these roads is after you drop under 2400lbs and have a good torque / power curve that puts over 250-300 to the ground, good tires and suspension you're basically talking fractions maybe a couple seconds faster over 10-14 miles. You can't really use more than 300whp on these roads.
If you guys want to see what I mean, open both of these videos and watch them side by side. Skip to 0:27 seconds on the first video, and skip to 4:14 on the 2nd video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JrkPF-SVA <<< Ronin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVhVQAWtoc <<< EVO Guy
That green pole on the right side of the road means they are at the same point. Start them side by side and note the speed difference between Ronins 680whp Lotus and some kid in a 400hp EVO 8.
They actually run to the top of the hill about 1 or 2 seconds apart. This course is I believe 4 miles ish and Ronin's average calculated speed is approx 75mph (165km/h)
Just watched the 2 videos above, not a huge amount of difference in time from a-b. More to do with the car or driver? I'd probably say driver to be honest.The reality of the situation is on these roads is after you drop under 2400lbs and have a good torque / power curve that puts over 250-300 to the ground, good tires and suspension you're basically talking fractions maybe a couple seconds faster over 10-14 miles. You can't really use more than 300whp on these roads.
If you guys want to see what I mean, open both of these videos and watch them side by side. Skip to 0:27 seconds on the first video, and skip to 4:14 on the 2nd video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JrkPF-SVA <<< Ronin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVhVQAWtoc <<< EVO Guy
That green pole on the right side of the road means they are at the same point. Start them side by side and note the speed difference between Ronins 680whp Lotus and some kid in a 400hp EVO 8.
They actually run to the top of the hill about 1 or 2 seconds apart. This course is I believe 4 miles ish and Ronin's average calculated speed is approx 75mph (165km/h)
Edited by Zero 1 on Sunday 22 April 02:40
Edited by Zero 1 on Sunday 22 April 03:45
Zero 1 said:
+1. The only problem is you can't say anything to Ronin without him going insane. It would be nice to discuss facts about what makes a car fast in the mountains or on a hill climb stage, but it's impossible with this guy to say anything but "your car is the absolute best / fastest / most insane lotus ever created by man, no F1 car or hill climb car could ever touch you" without getting your head ripped off.
The reality of the situation is on these roads is after you drop under 2400lbs and have a good torque / power curve that puts over 250-300 to the ground, good tires and suspension you're basically talking fractions maybe a couple seconds faster over 10-14 miles. You can't really use more than 300whp on these roads.
If you guys want to see what I mean, open both of these videos and watch them side by side. Skip to 0:27 seconds on the first video, and skip to 4:14 on the 2nd video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JrkPF-SVA <<< Ronin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVhVQAWtoc <<< EVO Guy
That green pole on the right side of the road means they are at the same point. Start them side by side and note the speed difference between Ronins 680whp Lotus and some kid in a 400hp EVO 8.
They actually run to the top of the hill about 1 or 2 seconds apart. This course is I believe 4 miles ish and Ronin's average calculated speed is approx 75mph (165km/h)
Personally I don't see the point of that comparison TBH. One is filmed during the day with a passenger who Ronin is taking for a first run out, traffic, cyclists etc. and the other in the dead of night with two mates in the car. The reality of the situation is on these roads is after you drop under 2400lbs and have a good torque / power curve that puts over 250-300 to the ground, good tires and suspension you're basically talking fractions maybe a couple seconds faster over 10-14 miles. You can't really use more than 300whp on these roads.
If you guys want to see what I mean, open both of these videos and watch them side by side. Skip to 0:27 seconds on the first video, and skip to 4:14 on the 2nd video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JrkPF-SVA <<< Ronin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVhVQAWtoc <<< EVO Guy
That green pole on the right side of the road means they are at the same point. Start them side by side and note the speed difference between Ronins 680whp Lotus and some kid in a 400hp EVO 8.
They actually run to the top of the hill about 1 or 2 seconds apart. This course is I believe 4 miles ish and Ronin's average calculated speed is approx 75mph (165km/h)
Edited by Zero 1 on Sunday 22 April 02:40
Edited by Zero 1 on Sunday 22 April 03:45
If you're trying to draw the conclusion that Ronin's car isn't actually that fast then I think you're very very wrong. First it's clear that Ronin isn't anywhere near the limit of his car, second, judging by the tyre squeal, the Evo is being driven much harder.
You talk about the 'reality' of power and weight on these roads. I'm afraid I have to disagree here too. There are lots of Euro Hill Climb cars with beyond 300bhp and RWD who are posting times with a spread of 10s of seconds rather than your claims of fractions.
Long live the King of stunt rd.
This Zero guy is a zero ..... I'm just takin my buddy for a drive through the twisties we weren't even thinking of tryin to be fast duhh.... No squealin tires, no corrections to steering input, no drama....
For smiles here is Philippe's comment on the car...
hello
you are all jelaous of Frank or what ? this man keep his passion alive, he makes what he says, and none of you has tried his car ! so shut up ignorant pigs !
Frank wanted to make the best car for the canyons ! but still beeing usable in any situation ! i went to california and i took this opportunity to meet Frank and try this fastest lotus !!!
i shall say he did it and far better than anyone could think !
i have followed many forums and the evolution since 3 years of this fastest exige ever build !!
most of you are talking about something they do not know, i mean the performance of this car and the feeling sitting inside with 700 bhp pushing you !
now i will share my experience with you because i have been with frank in the canyon during 3 hours, so i can describe the sensation .
when the engine start i noticed the deep sound of the exhaust and the iddle as stable as my exige cup ! so easy that you cannot imagine what is under the bonnet.
then we took the HW and the car was smooth as any other lotus elise.
But when you open the throttle, you enter in a new dimension ... the turbo has simply no lag and the rivs climb up to 8500 so fast , the waste gate set the boost and the dump valve blow off at any gear shift with an incredible sound !
this car is so fabulous ! the power comes immediatly and the torque push the car to hard when you exit a corner, i felt like a video game !!
during 2 hours we were on the canyon roads pushing the rivs, the turbo and the adrenaline !!! fantastic sensation, easy and always predictable.
it is by far the best car someone could expect in the canyon ! light, fast, with a very smooth power which comes at each throttle opening.
the sensation are far more intense than any other prestigious car in which i have been in my life (includes F430 challenge, 997 GT2, Z06...)
a real and ultimate Lotus with the best engine ever ! the videos which i have seen before i went in the car cannot reproduce even a little of what you feel inside !
we should simply realized the incredible work, time, also money , but mainly passion involved.
it is easy to make critics, or funny comparaison, but frank did what he wanted : the most fantastic car for a ride in the canyons !
and still usable on hw, with Aircon and music ! (not possible with an Atom !!)
it is furthermore reliable, i have seen it as we have a long ride including slow traffic on HW !
thanks to Frank for this sublime opportunity ! and unique experience
now my Exige Cup racetrack seems a little less magic ! but i know what is possible and efficient to make it fantastic ...
so you can still put critics or comments, but it will not change what i have experienced ... and you cannot even imagine it ...
philippe (the french connection)
So for the haters the car is no more ya got your wish.... But there may be another Lotus canyon toy in the wings and it won't be afraid of the light..
This Zero guy is a zero ..... I'm just takin my buddy for a drive through the twisties we weren't even thinking of tryin to be fast duhh.... No squealin tires, no corrections to steering input, no drama....
For smiles here is Philippe's comment on the car...
hello
you are all jelaous of Frank or what ? this man keep his passion alive, he makes what he says, and none of you has tried his car ! so shut up ignorant pigs !
Frank wanted to make the best car for the canyons ! but still beeing usable in any situation ! i went to california and i took this opportunity to meet Frank and try this fastest lotus !!!
i shall say he did it and far better than anyone could think !
i have followed many forums and the evolution since 3 years of this fastest exige ever build !!
most of you are talking about something they do not know, i mean the performance of this car and the feeling sitting inside with 700 bhp pushing you !
now i will share my experience with you because i have been with frank in the canyon during 3 hours, so i can describe the sensation .
when the engine start i noticed the deep sound of the exhaust and the iddle as stable as my exige cup ! so easy that you cannot imagine what is under the bonnet.
then we took the HW and the car was smooth as any other lotus elise.
But when you open the throttle, you enter in a new dimension ... the turbo has simply no lag and the rivs climb up to 8500 so fast , the waste gate set the boost and the dump valve blow off at any gear shift with an incredible sound !
this car is so fabulous ! the power comes immediatly and the torque push the car to hard when you exit a corner, i felt like a video game !!
during 2 hours we were on the canyon roads pushing the rivs, the turbo and the adrenaline !!! fantastic sensation, easy and always predictable.
it is by far the best car someone could expect in the canyon ! light, fast, with a very smooth power which comes at each throttle opening.
the sensation are far more intense than any other prestigious car in which i have been in my life (includes F430 challenge, 997 GT2, Z06...)
a real and ultimate Lotus with the best engine ever ! the videos which i have seen before i went in the car cannot reproduce even a little of what you feel inside !
we should simply realized the incredible work, time, also money , but mainly passion involved.
it is easy to make critics, or funny comparaison, but frank did what he wanted : the most fantastic car for a ride in the canyons !
and still usable on hw, with Aircon and music ! (not possible with an Atom !!)
it is furthermore reliable, i have seen it as we have a long ride including slow traffic on HW !
thanks to Frank for this sublime opportunity ! and unique experience
now my Exige Cup racetrack seems a little less magic ! but i know what is possible and efficient to make it fantastic ...
so you can still put critics or comments, but it will not change what i have experienced ... and you cannot even imagine it ...
philippe (the french connection)
So for the haters the car is no more ya got your wish.... But there may be another Lotus canyon toy in the wings and it won't be afraid of the light..
the ronin said:
So for the haters the car is no more ya got your wish.... But there may be another Lotus canyon toy in the wings and it won't be afraid of the light..
Thats sad , good luck with the new project onwards and upwards Cant believe the haters on here ,this used to be a site for car enthusiasts
cheesesliceking said:
Cool story bro.
Thanks, I've taken Lotus buddies from all over the world for drives through the canyons and each and everyone of them have had the same response. I've even let a few of the guys take the wheel to get the entire sensation of what couldn't be done but some how I proved the chumps wrong every time...Guys that know me first hand know I don't take BS or dish it out but it's the internet and the fools have to be heard...
PH feel free to lock this thread down ..
Frank, do you understand that nearly everyone here thinks the cars you've owned are pretty amazing but that you do yourself no favours with all the bluster and bravado? I'd be interested to read a rebuild thread about the Lotus but not if you're going to label anyone other than the most craven sycophant a "hater".
Good luck with the rebuild or choice of new car, whichever happens. For clarification and the avoidance of doubt I don't want to touch your ballbag.
Good luck with the rebuild or choice of new car, whichever happens. For clarification and the avoidance of doubt I don't want to touch your ballbag.
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