Performance Automatics

[Max M4X WW]

I had the exhaust 'done' on my 540i and it probably sounds quite stupid at low speed/in drive but in manual mode and at high revs I've been told it sounds pretty good. Crap clip..

http://youtu.be/_a33CLgP7GY?hd=1

[Contigo]

Dr Interceptor said:

Give me a manual so I can blip the throttle on downshifts...

I'm currently on the hunt for a Stag, it has to be a manual

Bet it doesn't sound as good as the auto blip/dip on the M5 E60/E61 which dips the clutch for you and gives a lovely sounding blip on downchange.

[anonymous-user]

james280779 said:

Am I in a small minority, When I see a sports car making lovely noises then as you hear the auto gear change I just cringe. What a waste!

There are some fantastic cars ruined by auto boxes. Biggest crime one here in Australia has to be the V8 Fords and Holdens. Loads of them with awful auto boxes. Heard a toyota Supra today, pulled away lovely then the distictive auto gear change.

makes me sad, I know paddleshift etc have control also but even thats just not the same!

Depends on the car. The Switchtronic gearbox (auto) on my Alpina suits the car very well. However, the same gearbox in my old TVR would be a bit rubbish. Saying auto boxes aren't any good sort of dismisses all the AMG products. Which is a bit silly

[john2443]

Isn't the problem the fluid flywheel ratehr than the auto?

If you have an auto with a proper clutch, which presumably flappy paddle cars do, then the mushy change isn't there.

No, I don't like autos either, I had to drive a Zafira auto last weekend and it was awful, luckily I only drove about 200yards and went back to the manual Transit, which was mush better

[QuackHandle]

off_again said:

Yep, got a 330i Msport auto and its fantastic. Ok, its not a sports car, but it is smooth, seamless and effortless on the changes and its got paddles and clever programming to give you control too! Its a fantastic gearbox and bloody impressive.

Slips and slides like a good'un when you want it too - gearbox is not a hindrance there!

I currently have an E93 330d M-Sport auto as a courtesy car, I actually really like the gearbox too, especially using the gear lever as a sequential 'box

[bqf]

I have an E55 AMG with an auto, and imho, it sounds immense - like some sort of WW2 fighter plane - the relentlessness of the gearchanges just add to the adrenaline rush.

When I want to play F1 I can use the steering wheel gear changers, but hardly ever do. I do like manuals but I spend a whole stack of my driving life stuck in jams, when having to use the clutch becomes a chore. I drove my 911 to work the other day and my leg ached after spending an hour crawling along through the traffic into the office.

I'm turning 40 this year, and my word, it's starting to show

[bodhi]

I find autos a bit dull in all honesty, far too much point, squirt and steer going on for my liking. I had a 320Cd Auto for a while, whilst it was relaxing in traffic it got on my nerves the rest of the time, even in manual mode.

Stick and a clutch for me if possible please.

[300bhp/ton]

Dave Hedgehog said:

thats why we have duel clutch systems now, its an auto by day for the traffic and by night you have control

You can do that, or at least very similar with an auto though. And having control using a switch attached to a paddle, isn't quite the same as changing gear yourself.

[300bhp/ton]

Podie said:

Have Jag ever done manual R cars?

XJR6 X300 could be had with a manual.

[300bhp/ton]

Podie said:

Talking of which, isn 't the new M5 auto only - apart from (ironically) the US?

Have to say, I always find it funny that the UK still thinks US cars are all auto's. When it's totally not true.

All of their fast cars and top line performance cars from the early 90's C4 ZR-1, thru Dodge Viper, Mustang Cobra's, Corvette C5 z06, C6 z06, C6 ZR1 and Shelby Cobra's have only ever been available in manual with no auto option at all.

Cars like a Camaro SS and Trans Am (4 Gens) sold more in manual than auto. Although in the UK the official Euro models are nearly all auto, despite the manual being the standard transmission and the auto optional.

[anonymous-user]

bqf said:

I have an E55 AMG with an auto, and imho, it sounds immense - like some sort of WW2 fighter plane - the relentlessness of the gearchanges just add to the adrenaline rush.

When I want to play F1 I can use the steering wheel gear changers, but hardly ever do. I do like manuals but I spend a whole stack of my driving life stuck in jams, when having to use the clutch becomes a chore. I drove my 911 to work the other day and my leg ached after spending an hour crawling along through the traffic into the office.

I'm turning 40 this year, and my word, it's starting to show

A mate of mine had a C55 that had been decatted (same engine as yours I think?). That sounded . People used to do double takes when we drove past as they couldn't believe that sound was coming from that car!

[300bhp/ton]

off_again said:

To answer the OP though - auto boxes are popular around the world. US loves them and its either the cheapest of the cheap or specific sports cars that are manual, everything else is auto. Japan too - an auto is much more common than a manual, even in smaller cars! Take the FTO, some silly percentage are auto's! And the Supra is another example - never sold in auto form in the UK IIRC, but most imports are auto's, because most Japanese market ones are auto's!

Not sure about Australia, but given their love of V8's I would suggest that they too like the auto too! Even Europe has adopted the auto more than the UK! So I would suggest that its a Euro thing in general, with the UK being a particular stick-in-the-mud with manual gearboxes.

I'd have said you are wrong, many British cars are auto's. We offered auto's in the TR7 the Stag. The Rover P6 3500 V8 was auto only on launch. Jaguar haven't really offered a proper manual until the 3.0 V6 S-Type in 99 as almost everything else from 1970 onwards was auto. V8 Ranger Rover's and Disco's are nearly all autos.

[tucks]

i wouldnt want my car to automatically turn for me or limit my right foot when a sharpe corner came into view, even if it did make me a quicker driver! i can see the appeal on some cars, for wafting along though. imo, if i wanted to truly enjoy the whole theatre of a spirited drive then personally id NEED a manual.

its a personal thing though but i hear alot of car enthusiasts slate "modren" driving aids(TC,ABS etc)- surely an automatic gear box is the most hanus of them all?
ive never been in a truly quick car with an auto box though, apart from a VXR8 but i wasnt the driver. my view is based on my iggnorent naive view of the world only.

[Dr Interceptor]

Contigo said:

Bet it doesn't sound as good as the auto blip/dip on the M5 E60/E61 which dips the clutch for you and gives a lovely sounding blip on downchange.

But it's artificial... a bit like the 370Z that auto blips the throttle for you on a manual box.

If the engine makes a noise, i want to be the one that made it do it, not a computer under the bonnet.

[Triumph Man]

For wafting along in some large barge, for example a Jaguar XJ, then yes, an auto would be preferable. As has been said above though, if I'm pressing on I prefer a proper gearbox with a clutch pedal. Blipping on downchanges, perhaps fluffing a change once in a while, it adds to the fun factor.

[300bhp/ton]

tucks said:

i wouldnt want my car to automatically turn for me or limit my right foot when a sharpe corner came into view, even if it did make me a quicker driver! i can see the appeal on some cars, for wafting along though. imo, if i wanted to truly enjoy the whole theatre of a spirited drive then personally id NEED a manual.

its a personal thing though but i hear alot of car enthusiasts slate "modren" driving aids(TC,ABS etc)- surely an automatic gear box is the most hanus of them all?
ive never been in a truly quick car with an auto box though, apart from a VXR8 but i wasnt the driver. my view is based on my iggnorent naive view of the world only.

I much prefer manuals through choice, although my current and past line ups offer quite a good comparison.

Camaro has a 4 speed OD auto and silly tall 2.73:1 final drive. 54mph in 1st, 102mph in 2nd and 160mph in 3rd. However the motor makes loads of power and has a broad powerband. Now I've driven 6 speed manual Camaro's and they are more fun, but the auto works quite well, it doesn't dither, it willing kicks down, will hold gears well and is responsive. You maybe lack that slight tactile feel of a manual, but otherwise it doesn't detract from the driving experience and does give you immediate grunt at any speed without thinking about it.

The only 2 downsides; the gearing. Above 37/38mph it won't kick down to 1st, but leaves you fairly low in the rpms in 2nd. So acceleration from 40mph rolling start is a lot less than from 30 or 50mph. A high stall torque converter or shorter final drive would likely solve this though.

The other issue is certain corners and round abouts, where in a manual you'd likely use wide open throttle (or near too) but in a gear higher, so you are at WOT @ say 3000rpm. With the auto it'll be in 2nd or 3rd at approx 20mph. All you want to do is maintain the rpms you're at and go to WOT, but it won't, it'll kick down causing massive wheelspin. Suspension and tyres would help, but won't solve the issue.


smart Roadster has a 3 speed manual with electronic ovderdrive on each gear for 6 gears and an electronic clutch. So you use it like a sequential gearbox by pumping a lever back and forth and there is no clutch pedal. Personally I find this very enjoyable, it's totally different to driving a normal manual and you have to think a bit more, a bit differently and drive the car in a slightly different manner. But it makes it feel special and for me enhances the appeal and fun factor of the car. Ok the shift speed is a little slow, but once you figure out how it works, it really isn't that slow and certainly poses no restrictions on you selecting what gear you want and need, when you want and need them. The car has almost silly short gearing and requires 4th gear to reach 60mph in stock guise. But again this adds to the sensation of speed and driving. For fast B road and tarmac rally style driving this box works very very well IMO and I think a regular H gate with this gearing would actually be an inferior drive.


TR7 V8 has a traditional 5 speed manual running a fairly short 3.90:1 final drive. This means it's rather frantic and lots of revs and only geared for around 120mph @ 6000rpm in 5th. This is certainly more engaging on the driver physically, but you do realise if you've been driving either of the others for a while, just how much time one of your hands spends off of the steering wheel. The Rover LR-77 box is also an old school agricultural feeling box with a heavy clunky throw. The pedals are not idea for heel and toe either (well not for my feet).



Having one of each means I get huge variety and completely different feel of sensations from all of them though.

[Spoof]

I have nothing against either, so long as they're good. A crap manual that's like stirring wallpaper paste is just as bad as a rubbish auto.

I do love how modern Auto/DSG boxes make a wonderful /brap/brap/ noise on flat upshifts.

Not a huge fan of the car, but I'd never tire of those upshifts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Jw2Q9HmAs&fea...
Skip midway in to the video.

Can't do that with a Manuel.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

The other issue is certain corners and round abouts, where in a manual you'd likely use wide open throttle (or near too) but in a gear higher, so you are at WOT @ say 3000rpm. With the auto it'll be in 2nd or 3rd at approx 20mph. All you want to do is maintain the rpms you're at and go to WOT, but it won't, it'll kick down causing massive wheelspin. Suspension and tyres would help, but won't solve the issue.

You need a gearbox that lets you manually select the gear AND locks the Torque Convertor up to do this with an auto.

Edited by St John Smythe on Friday 20th April 15:31

[300bhp/ton]

St John Smythe said:

You need a gearbox that lets you manually select the gear AND locks the Torque Convertor up to do this with an auto.

Edited by St John Smythe on Friday 20th April 15:31

I've never seen one, but all it really needs is a switch to disable the kickdown so you can use WOT in the gear its in. Combine this with a ratchet shifter and I think it would actually offer quite a nice level of control.

[Mr Dave]

I had a manual e39 for about 2 years and have now got an automatic e39 528.

I never thought it was as good (it was my dads old car) and that it would take away the fun of driving. After a couple of weeks my finding are...

1. Hillstarts and not having a clutch as someone here mentioned? Why would you need a clutch? You brake on the hill and leave it in drive and the car stays there. When you need to move off press the accelerator. Simple. And smoother than I usually am in a car using the clutch.

2. Your hands are on the wheel a lot more of the time, especially when driving fast.

3. Midrange pull is better, much better, but top speed is worse.

4. Noise, yes it isnt quite as good changing gears but the smooth changes have its own charm.

5. Not once has the gearbox done the wrong thing, changed down at the wrong time, changed up when not wanted to etc.

6. The longer gearing in first means that burnouts and donuts are much better craic.

7. It launches so smoothly and seamlessly Id be very happy with a start like that in the manual.

8. In ice and snow or on wet grass and so on you do have less control I would imagine. That is why I have the 4x4. (only experience of driving on a low grip surface so far has been doing a donuts in a mates back garden because he wouldnt come out and play to be honest)

9. Fuel economy is a lot worse on shorter journeys, long journeys fine.

10. Any problems Ive had with autos before have been because they have been crap or fitted to a car with a smaller engine.