High mileage cars for sale

[DoubleD]

ATM said:

Clearly our view of people differs. I'm perhaps more sinister in my expectations than you are. This haircut malarkey has been going on for years. I think PCP and lease deals which make it much more advantageous for the individual owners have moved this problem from dodgy dealer forecourts to private individuals. The sums of money involved incentivise people to do it.

Example

Lease deal for 5000 miles per annum with 7p penalty for each mile going over.

You do 45000 miles so 35000 over which is £2450 penalty. Not sure about VAT.

Thats only based on 7p. Some premium cars could be more.

Anyway I'm sure a haircut is much much cheaper.

If someone can make £2000 by getting a harcut I think more would do it than would not.

Most people are reasonable law abiding citizens. Its only on here where people seem to think that everyone else isn't.

[Burwood]

ATM said:

DoubleD said:

ATM said:

DoubleD said:

ATM said:

Dapster said:

ATM said:

Jimmy Recard said:

em177 said:

I wonder if it had a haircut before it’s first MOT and has actually done significantly more miles...

Or 20,000 mile lease for three years and became a taxi once sold to the following owner

I'm always very suspicious of almost any car that only does 20000 miles in first three years since new. Makes no sense someone buying a new car to then hardly use it.

The average UK motorist drives 7,900 miles per annum according to DoT calculations on 23m MOTs (which presumably include all the dodgy haircuts....). So 20k in 3 years is bang on average - nothing suspicious.

But why buy a brand new car and then sell it after only 20000 miles. I know some people will do it but it is surely in the minority. The rest have all had haircuts I'm sure. How do you know which one you are buying when it's so hard to tell the difference.

People who lease, PCP and also company cars.

This will make up the vast majority of new car sales. So I would say that pretty much all of them will have genuine mileage.

As has been previously said, there is nothing suspicious going on.

I know someone in the leasing game. Some of this person's customers openly admit to getting a haircut before returning cars. So lease for 5000 miles per annum and run up 45000 miles over 2 years then haircut back to say 8 or 9000. Hand the car back and avoid any penalties. Assuming it doesn't happen with lease or PCP is just daft.

Most will have genuine miles.

Clearly our view of people differs. I'm perhaps more sinister in my expectations than you are. This haircut malarkey has been going on for years. I think PCP and lease deals which make it much more advantageous for the individual owners have moved this problem from dodgy dealer forecourts to private individuals. The sums of money involved incentivise people to do it.

Example

Lease deal for 5000 miles per annum with 7p penalty for each mile going over.

You do 45000 miles so 35000 over which is £2450 penalty. Not sure about VAT.

Thats only based on 7p. Some premium cars could be more.

Anyway I'm sure a haircut is much much cheaper.

If someone can make £2000 by getting a harcut I think more would do it than would not.

You would need to hair cut it before you took it to a dealer for anything. VAG cars require servicing at 20k max so in your scenario it would need 2X trims. I don't know for sure but on my wife VAG car we get calls from the dealer saying it's coming up for a mileage based service. Is the car connected and is it passing this data? I have never even considered doing such a thing. I would think it extremely rare (< 5%). Do all the tyres match in terms of date(stamped on the tyre). A 45k car would need new rubber somewhere. You are saying more would do it that not. Can't possibly be true. I think some mayponder it after they realise the excess charges but it's too late by them. Very few would even know how to do about doing it and most of them would then worry about getting caught or the simple fact that it's immoral.

Edited by Burwood on Wednesday 8th January 10:22

[ATM]

Burwood said:

ATM said:

DoubleD said:

ATM said:

DoubleD said:

ATM said:

Dapster said:

ATM said:

Jimmy Recard said:

em177 said:

I wonder if it had a haircut before it’s first MOT and has actually done significantly more miles...

Or 20,000 mile lease for three years and became a taxi once sold to the following owner

I'm always very suspicious of almost any car that only does 20000 miles in first three years since new. Makes no sense someone buying a new car to then hardly use it.

The average UK motorist drives 7,900 miles per annum according to DoT calculations on 23m MOTs (which presumably include all the dodgy haircuts....). So 20k in 3 years is bang on average - nothing suspicious.

But why buy a brand new car and then sell it after only 20000 miles. I know some people will do it but it is surely in the minority. The rest have all had haircuts I'm sure. How do you know which one you are buying when it's so hard to tell the difference.

People who lease, PCP and also company cars.

This will make up the vast majority of new car sales. So I would say that pretty much all of them will have genuine mileage.

As has been previously said, there is nothing suspicious going on.

I know someone in the leasing game. Some of this person's customers openly admit to getting a haircut before returning cars. So lease for 5000 miles per annum and run up 45000 miles over 2 years then haircut back to say 8 or 9000. Hand the car back and avoid any penalties. Assuming it doesn't happen with lease or PCP is just daft.

Most will have genuine miles.

Clearly our view of people differs. I'm perhaps more sinister in my expectations than you are. This haircut malarkey has been going on for years. I think PCP and lease deals which make it much more advantageous for the individual owners have moved this problem from dodgy dealer forecourts to private individuals. The sums of money involved incentivise people to do it.

Example

Lease deal for 5000 miles per annum with 7p penalty for each mile going over.

You do 45000 miles so 35000 over which is £2450 penalty. Not sure about VAT.

Thats only based on 7p. Some premium cars could be more.

Anyway I'm sure a haircut is much much cheaper.

If someone can make £2000 by getting a harcut I think more would do it than would not.

You would need to hair cut it before you took it to a dealer for anything. VAG cars require servicing at 20k max so in your scenario it would need 2X trims. I don't know for sure but on my wife VAG car we get calls from the dealer saying it's coming up for a mileage based service. Is the car connected and is it passing this data? I have never even considered doing such a thing. I would think it extremely rare (< 5%). Do all the tyres match in terms of date(stamped on the tyre). A 45k car would need new rubber somewhere. You are saying more would do it that not. Can't possibly be true. I think some mayponder it after they realise the excess charges but it's too late by them. Very few would even know how to do about doing it and most of them would then worry about getting caught or the simple fact that it's immoral.

Edited by Burwood on Wednesday 8th January 10:22

If it's a lease car which you are keen to save money on by defrauding the lease co then maybe - I mean I am just spit balling here - you would not get it serviced. Just drive it round for 2 years. Stack up many miles over the agreed 10000 for the period and then get the hair cut and return it. I don't need to be a criminal or immoral to understand the thinking of one or see the flaws in the process. The hair cut resets the mileage so it then thinks it doesn't need a sevice. The hand over guy just looks at condition. From what I am told they do not plug in any diagnostic equipment and even if they did the haircut people need to be able to fool these into believing the new mileage is bonified. It's just a computer with some numbers stored after all.

I saw a neighbour getting his continental gt done 10 to 12 years ago. The guy was outside his house for about 2 hours doing it in the street. He even had a soldering iron out removing chips from the back of the clocks which had been removed from the dashboard. It was a very involved process not just click click done. I was sort of watching for a bit but got bored.

[WarrenB]

ATM said:

If it's a lease car which you are keen to save money on by defrauding the lease co then maybe - I mean I am just spit balling here - you would not get it serviced. Just drive it round for 2 years. Stack up many miles over the agreed 10000 for the period and then get the hair cut and return it. I don't need to be a criminal or immoral to understand the thinking of one or see the flaws in the process. The hair cut resets the mileage so it then thinks it doesn't need a sevice. The hand over guy just looks at condition. From what I am told they do not plug in any diagnostic equipment and even if they did the haircut people need to be able to fool these into believing the new mileage is bonified. It's just a computer with some numbers stored after all.

I saw a neighbour getting his continental gt done 10 to 12 years ago. The guy was outside his house for about 2 hours doing it in the street. He even had a soldering iron out removing chips from the back of the clocks which had been removed from the dashboard. It was a very involved process not just click click done. I was sort of watching for a bit but got bored.

I personally know someone who does this, and know of quite a few others who do the same.

The car in question was an A Class. Over three years it did just over 50k, never had a service. Went back after three years, with mismatched ditchfinder tyres, a fully Mercedes stamped service history book acquired from eBay (apparently the 'digital' service history didn't matter), and only 16k on the clock. As long as the alloys were unscuffed and there were no dings or big scratches the chap collecting it didn't care.

He's currently running up similar mileage on a leased 1 series.

Someone may think they've got themselves a well looked after three year old A Class, whereas in reality it's anything but.

Really would put me off buying ex lease/PCP cars.

[John Locke]

DoubleD said:

John Locke said:

Most of my neighbours "buy" a new car every three years, some at more than £1,000 per month.
Thank heavens for useful idiots; I can then have their £70k car for less than £30k, and enjoy the remaining 90% of its useful life.

Sounds like they got a good deal then. The lease cost them less than the depreciation.

"some at more than £1,000 per month."

The operative word being more, plus of course the deposit.

Toaster Pilot said:

Not this st again

Apologies for not having read every post on the forum in the few weeks I have been here.

Edited by John Locke on Wednesday 8th January 14:17

[Toaster Pilot]

WarrenB said:

I personally know someone who does this, and know of quite a few others who do the same.

The car in question was an A Class. Over three years it did just over 50k, never had a service. Went back after three years, with mismatched ditchfinder tyres, a fully Mercedes stamped service history book acquired from eBay (apparently the 'digital' service history didn't matter), and only 16k on the clock. As long as the alloys were unscuffed and there were no dings or big scratches the chap collecting it didn't care.

He's currently running up similar mileage on a leased 1 series.

Someone may think they've got themselves a well looked after three year old A Class, whereas in reality it's anything but.

Really would put me off buying ex lease/PCP cars.

I wouldn’t buy ex lease/PCP cars with mismatched ditchfinders and no digital service history either

[ATM]

John Locke said:

Apologies for not having read every post on the forum in the few weeks I have been here.

Dont worry John we're not all the same on here.

[bolidemichael]

This is very interesting. When I was driving north on the M6 recently (getting into Oop North territory), I picked up an Exchange and Mart type rag for a nosey and saw a half page ad for mileage correction.

[ATM]

bolidemichael said:

This is very interesting. When I was driving north on the M6 recently (getting into Oop North territory), I picked up an Exchange and Mart type rag for a nosey and saw a half page ad for mileage correction.

Look at all the lease deals for 4000 miles per annum over 2 years and tell me they make sense. Then look at the pence per mile surcharge over the 4000. Then do some maths. A 2 year old car on 8000 miles needs no service. So just drive round, haircut and return. Return is done at your home by an elderly gentlemen who collects the car and wants to look for scratches and damage. Think We Buy Any Car type deal. A modern car wont look worn on 30 or 40000 miles after 2 years. Not much more worn than an 8000 mile car. The old boy cant pull you up on a worn looking seat - thats just wear and tear sir.

The lease companies might know it goes on. But they just pass the car on. The dealer then buying the car form the leasing co might know this goes on but they just forecourt it for whatever and sell to a private punter like you or me. Lots of places specialise in 2 and 3 year old lease cars. The low mileage ones seems to be pride of place. Maybe because Audi have checked and dont want it on their forecourts so it goes to a supermarket place. Maybe they do know when they check or maybe they dont. No idea.

[zedx19]

Worth noting that mileage correction isn't illegal, it's a perfectly legal business. However, it's meant to be used for correcting a cars mileage if the dash clocks have developed a fault or been replaced. Rather than the replacement clocks saying x, they are corrected to say the true mileage. Obviously there's a business for winding back the clocks for other reason though.

[bolidemichael]

ATM said:

bolidemichael said:

This is very interesting. When I was driving north on the M6 recently (getting into Oop North territory), I picked up an Exchange and Mart type rag for a nosey and saw a half page ad for mileage correction.

Look at all the lease deals for 4000 miles per annum over 2 years and tell me they make sense. Then look at the pence per mile surcharge over the 4000. Then do some maths. A 2 year old car on 8000 miles needs no service. So just drive round, haircut and return. Return is done at your home by an elderly gentlemen who collects the car and wants to look for scratches and damage. Think We Buy Any Car type deal. A modern car wont look worn on 30 or 40000 miles after 2 years. Not much more worn than an 8000 mile car. The old boy cant pull you up on a worn looking seat - thats just wear and tear sir.

The lease companies might know it goes on. But they just pass the car on. The dealer then buying the car form the leasing co might know this goes on but they just forecourt it for whatever and sell to a private punter like you or me. Lots of places specialise in 2 and 3 year old lease cars. The low mileage ones seems to be pride of place. Maybe because Audi have checked and dont want it on their forecourts so it goes to a supermarket place. Maybe they do know when they check or maybe they dont. No idea.

That's unbelievable; caveat emptor indeed!

zedx19 said:

Worth noting that mileage correction isn't illegal, it's a perfectly legal business. However, it's meant to be used for correcting a cars mileage if the dash clocks have developed a fault or been replaced. Rather than the replacement clocks saying x, they are corrected to say the true mileage. Obviously there's a business for winding back the clocks for other reason though.

I concluded that was the case, whilst the half page ad belied the 'claim'!

[DoubleD]

John Locke said:

DoubleD said:

John Locke said:

Most of my neighbours "buy" a new car every three years, some at more than £1,000 per month.
Thank heavens for useful idiots; I can then have their £70k car for less than £30k, and enjoy the remaining 90% of its useful life.

Sounds like they got a good deal then. The lease cost them less than the depreciation.

"some at more than £1,000 per month."

The operative word being more, plus of course the deposit.

Toaster Pilot said:

Not this st again

Apologies for not having read every post on the forum in the few weeks I have been here.

Edited by John Locke on Wednesday 8th January 14:17

Well you know an awful lot more about your neighbours financial affairs than I do about mine.

[832ark]

ATM said:

bonified

Classic!

[Fun Bus]

jonobigblind said:

Plenty of company car owners that have them as part of a ‘status package’ rather than essential user.

Two of us in my team at my last place - both had company cars as part of package. He lived about 9 miles from the office, I lived 65 miles.

Just because it’s a company car it doesn’t mean it’s going to the moon and back...

I wouldn’t call either of you essential users. Commuting isn’t business mileage.

WarrenB said:

I personally know someone who does this, and know of quite a few others who do the same.

The car in question was an A Class. Over three years it did just over 50k, never had a service. Went back after three years, with mismatched ditchfinder tyres, a fully Mercedes stamped service history book acquired from eBay (apparently the 'digital' service history didn't matter), and only 16k on the clock. As long as the alloys were unscuffed and there were no dings or big scratches the chap collecting it didn't care.

He's currently running up similar mileage on a leased 1 series.

Someone may think they've got themselves a well looked after three year old A Class, whereas in reality it's anything but.

Really would put me off buying ex lease/PCP cars.

I could imagine the above happening with cars people buy outright without finance too.

Needless to say they won’t as that won’t allow the vitriole shown on PH towards those who finance their vehicles.

[anonymous-user]

I did some work with the telematics team at ALD Automotive a couple of years ago. They are all extremely pleased that telematics capability is becoming standard to stop exactly that crap. At the time they used a 3rd party solution for customers that required it, but that is just on the cusp of changing. In future a condition of the lease will almost certainly be that the car reports back it's own mileage at the end of each trip.

[jonobigblind]

Fun Bus said:

I wouldn’t call either of you essential users. Commuting isn’t business mileage.

Yep, nobody did and I wasn’t implying we were or that commuting was business mileage. Thanks for your input though

[Hashtaggggg]

Can we get back on topic?

[Jimmy Recard]

832ark said:

ATM said:

bonified

Classic!

I saw this yesterday, didn’t understand the word but now it has clicked

[ATM]

Hashtaggggg said:

Can we get back on topic?

Approved

[lord trumpton]

cj2013 said:

MOT history suggests it was a taxi - 335k.

Looks like it's been well maintained, but it's a brave punt

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Edited by cj2013 on Thursday 2nd January 22:38

Id suggest most if not all Taxi companies would run a vehicle to a state where it's beyond economical maintenance or there's something costly wrong with it. Especially at the milage.

Its likely on its last legs