RE: DTM: Why it matters
Discussion
Funnily enough, just this morning, a good friend back in NZ sent me a link to some great V8 Supercar footage. I watched it all and loved it.
Then I pop aong to see what Monday morning mayhem is on PistonHeads...DT - frigging - M? LOL. OK, it may get a bit more exciting this season. Then again, it may not. I know where I'd put my money if bets were on...
It's been said that the V8 thunder needs more folk to join in the party, and I agree. With Nissan coming along and bringing something new to the series, it could entice Toyota along also (or Lexus). One cn only hope the boys from down under race at Silverstone one day.
That would be utterly superb (but quite unlikely).
Cheers,
C.
Then I pop aong to see what Monday morning mayhem is on PistonHeads...DT - frigging - M? LOL. OK, it may get a bit more exciting this season. Then again, it may not. I know where I'd put my money if bets were on...
It's been said that the V8 thunder needs more folk to join in the party, and I agree. With Nissan coming along and bringing something new to the series, it could entice Toyota along also (or Lexus). One cn only hope the boys from down under race at Silverstone one day.
That would be utterly superb (but quite unlikely).
Cheers,
C.
Caractacus said:
Funnily enough, just this morning, a good friend back in NZ sent me a link to some great V8 Supercar footage. I watched it all and loved it.
Then I pop aong to see what Monday morning mayhem is on PistonHeads...DT - frigging - M? LOL. OK, it may get a bit more exciting this season. Then again, it may not. I know where I'd put my money if bets were on...
It's been said that the V8 thunder needs more folk to join in the party, and I agree. With Nissan coming along and bringing something new to the series, it could entice Toyota along also (or Lexus). One cn only hope the boys from down under race at Silverstone one day.
That would be utterly superb (but quite unlikely).
Cheers,
C.
I must admit I do love a spot of V8 Supercars - series linked on the Sky+ and all that - but I am intrigued by the DTM 'new era'. Like you say, could be a load of puff over nmothing. but it might - just might be darn good...Then I pop aong to see what Monday morning mayhem is on PistonHeads...DT - frigging - M? LOL. OK, it may get a bit more exciting this season. Then again, it may not. I know where I'd put my money if bets were on...
It's been said that the V8 thunder needs more folk to join in the party, and I agree. With Nissan coming along and bringing something new to the series, it could entice Toyota along also (or Lexus). One cn only hope the boys from down under race at Silverstone one day.
That would be utterly superb (but quite unlikely).
Cheers,
C.
Captain Muppet said:
There are loads of single make series around still, they haven't gone, you just don't know about them. I just checked the events at two random tracks next weekend:
Brands Hatch:
750MC Formula Vee Championship
Locost Championship
750MC Yokohama SAXMAX Championship
750MC Toyota MR2 Championship
Snetterton:
BRSCC Ford Fiesta Junior Championship
Logson Group Porsche Championship
Dunlop Ford Fiesta Championship
Ma5da MX-5 Cup Championship
I know the MR2 and MX5 races have full grids.
Mini 7s and Mini Miglias have been around since the 1960s. Fatanstic noise. Grid certainly isn't as full as uit used to be though. Brands Hatch:
750MC Formula Vee Championship
Locost Championship
750MC Yokohama SAXMAX Championship
750MC Toyota MR2 Championship
Snetterton:
BRSCC Ford Fiesta Junior Championship
Logson Group Porsche Championship
Dunlop Ford Fiesta Championship
Ma5da MX-5 Cup Championship
I know the MR2 and MX5 races have full grids.
While I'll echo the thoughts that DTM has been an utterly pointless exercise for the last few years, I have some hope that the new regs and the return of BMW will spice things up a bit.
On the other hand, why all the love for Aussie V8s? ALL the cars look virtually identical and mostly follow each other around stupidly tight tracks in a long train, with only the odd barging off to change the order. The races SEEM to go on for ever too, so the boredom is extended.
I've tried to watch V8s (and usually make the effort to watch Bathurst, just because), but it seems (aside from the surefit of technology) to suffer many of the same problems as DTM.
Not enough racing and not enough manufacturers!
M
On the other hand, why all the love for Aussie V8s? ALL the cars look virtually identical and mostly follow each other around stupidly tight tracks in a long train, with only the odd barging off to change the order. The races SEEM to go on for ever too, so the boredom is extended.
I've tried to watch V8s (and usually make the effort to watch Bathurst, just because), but it seems (aside from the surefit of technology) to suffer many of the same problems as DTM.
Not enough racing and not enough manufacturers!
M
Boring!
I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
The best touring car championship out there in my opinion is the Italian V8 Superstars series. I ended up watching it in Italy several years ago when Gianni Morbidelli and Pierluigi Martini had the most amazing battle around the Autodromo dell'Umbria at Magione in E90 M3 and Chrysler 300C respectively. Sadly this year's Donington Park round clashes with the DTM at Brands Hatch and I'm seriously torn about which to attend.
Madmatt74 said:
Boring!
I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
Sadly, it's not.I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
That just leads to the manufacturer prepared to build a pointless for the road homologation special winning everything.
Witness the never sold in RHD M3 E30, the XR4 Turbo (actually a Merkur US special NEVER sold in Europe) and the Ford Escort RS1600i, which was inferior on the road to an XR3i.
Then you have the Alfa 155 Silly Spolier and splitter kit in the boot special.
Make it 5000 and you might start getting what you're after... except the cars will be slow and dull...
M
chevronb37 said:
The best touring car championship out there in my opinion is the Italian V8 Superstars series. I ended up watching it in Italy several years ago when Gianni Morbidelli and Pierluigi Martini had the most amazing battle around the Autodromo dell'Umbria at Magione in E90 M3 and Chrysler 300C respectively. Sadly this year's Donington Park round clashes with the DTM at Brands Hatch and I'm seriously torn about which to attend.
I want to like the V8 Superstars but for some reason whenever I've watched it the quality of the racing just isn't there. if you look at the regs, it ought to be the European equivalent of V8 Supercars, but somehow it just doesn't quite work out, despite a decent depth of talent in the driver pool...As said already really, the DTM series has been pretty dull for a long time, and I can't see the new regs changing much if anything to be honest. I'll give the first couple of races a try if they're Motors/somewhere on Sky. But I'll be looking forward to V8SC and the BTCC a lot more.
Madmatt74 said:
Boring!
I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
I think you've gone too far, the cars should be completely standard (even using road tyres) except for safety equipment. To avoid homologation specials only allow cars that have sold more than 100,000 units. Yes they'd be slow but I remember watching Fiestas and the like racing at Oulton Park and they were always more exciting than whatever V8 RWD millionaires cup was supposed to be the main event.I want to see street legal cars race with a few modifications.
Lower it, Slicks, add roll cage and other safety equipment and 500 must be made with the same engine for the road.
That way the race cars resemble normal cars.
Car companies will sell cars due to motorsport connections and as its cheap no car company would miss out!
It will be like the good old days seeing your Xr4's, Cosworths, M3 E30's and other performance models on the road and the track.
Simples!
An example, with some not very fast Maestros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_sS011854
EDLT said:
An example, with some not very fast Maestros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_sS011854
Now that's entertainment! I particularly like those Maestros' habit of managing to understeer and oversteer at what appears to be the same time! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_sS011854
I used to watch DTM until it moved from Eurosport to ESPN. Possibly the most boring form of motorsport I ever perservered watching. No team orders, but if a driver wanted a car for the next season he better let his manufacturer's favoured boys through, little or no overtaking depending on the track, inconsistant marshalling and penalties (though was strange how Christian Abt never seemed to get in trouble for all the crashes he caused).
Oh and let us not forget Barcelona 2007 where Audi pulled all their cars as they felt some of the Merc drivers were being too rough.
In the 4-5 years I watched it the only real highlight was Paul Diresta's first season (the last I saw), where in a 3 year old car he was able to keep up with the front runners until he got some serious weight penalties (after all he not only made DTM poster girl Suzie Stoddard look decidedly poor, but he was showing up some of the big names in the series).
Oh and let us not forget Barcelona 2007 where Audi pulled all their cars as they felt some of the Merc drivers were being too rough.
In the 4-5 years I watched it the only real highlight was Paul Diresta's first season (the last I saw), where in a 3 year old car he was able to keep up with the front runners until he got some serious weight penalties (after all he not only made DTM poster girl Suzie Stoddard look decidedly poor, but he was showing up some of the big names in the series).
Hopefully this should give the series a much needed lift. In any event, it couldn't be worse than the BTCC, which is very dull these days. That said, try to think of a motorsport that is better now than it was 20 years ago...!
I would like to see a top level race series using properly homologated cars again. It would do wonders for the WRC. Mind you, in a world obsessed with smokey old diesels and electric cars I suspect some manufacturers wouldn't want the hassle of making an homologating a car for racing.
I would like to see a top level race series using properly homologated cars again. It would do wonders for the WRC. Mind you, in a world obsessed with smokey old diesels and electric cars I suspect some manufacturers wouldn't want the hassle of making an homologating a car for racing.
marcosgt said:
On the other hand, why all the love for Aussie V8s? ALL the cars look virtually identical and mostly follow each other around stupidly tight tracks in a long train, with only the odd barging off to change the order. The races SEEM to go on for ever too, so the boredom is extended.
I've tried to watch V8s (and usually make the effort to watch Bathurst, just because), but it seems (aside from the surefit of technology) to suffer many of the same problems as DTM.
Not enough racing and not enough manufacturers!
M
IMO (and some will think I'm talking nonsense), V8SC is probably the only series that can get away with 2 manufacturers. It's what gives the series character - the Ford v Holden rivalry but I've got no problems with other manufacturers.I've tried to watch V8s (and usually make the effort to watch Bathurst, just because), but it seems (aside from the surefit of technology) to suffer many of the same problems as DTM.
Not enough racing and not enough manufacturers!
M
It's all about the show - much more so in Touring cars due to the nature of its style of racing. Hence copying NASCAR in someway. At least the standards are better than BTCC.
Riggers said:
MG CHRIS said:
DTM exciting? you must be joking i can't remember watching a dtm race let alone watching an exciting dtm race.
Also why has pH done a feature on the start of the dtm and not on the btcc that competley baffeles me the biggest natonal series doesn't get a mention but a series that not even touring cars get a mention. The last main artical on here about the btcc was bashing it if i remember correctly.
So come on pH start supporting the btcc for a change instead of knocking it all the time there is even a pHer racing in the series but i guese you don't even now that.
We've been following Ollie's progress with interest in the BTCC and wish him the very best for the season.Also why has pH done a feature on the start of the dtm and not on the btcc that competley baffeles me the biggest natonal series doesn't get a mention but a series that not even touring cars get a mention. The last main artical on here about the btcc was bashing it if i remember correctly.
So come on pH start supporting the btcc for a change instead of knocking it all the time there is even a pHer racing in the series but i guese you don't even now that.
And just because we're doing a piece on the DTM, that doesn't mean we're anti-BTCC.
As for the dull nature of the racing in DTM, you may have a point - but that's why this season and its rule changes should be so interesting.
I used to love the DTM back when it was production based, but times change and frankly for me it has lost it long ago. All those 190s, E30 M3s, the barge like A8 and eventually the Alfa 155s were fantastic. What it has become now is so bespoke that it just leaves you wondering why they have to resemble road cars at all...
As for the Aussie V8s - enjoy watching them, but they do have a certain barge like appearance and to me that has broad parallels with NASCAR. Even the rival cars actually don't look that much different - you just wonder if one day the lights and grilles will just be stickers...... But, while for me it could use more variety in the cars, the most important element (the racing itself obviously) works superbly.
As for the Aussie V8s - enjoy watching them, but they do have a certain barge like appearance and to me that has broad parallels with NASCAR. Even the rival cars actually don't look that much different - you just wonder if one day the lights and grilles will just be stickers...... But, while for me it could use more variety in the cars, the most important element (the racing itself obviously) works superbly.
doogz said:
PiB said:
The particular U2 song is totally inappropriate for the cars racing. Do any current German road legal cars have 90 degree v-8 engines?doogz said:
Really?
You might not appreciate the style of driving that's prevalent in the BTCC these days, and you might not find the mostly FWD grid to be too interesting, compared to DTM, the Ozzy V8's, etc. but i don't really think you can call it dull.
I don't mind a FWD grid (though I prefer AWD and RWD for racing) but I just don't find the cars or the driving in BTCC particularly exciting. Just remember a few years ago when it was a great series. Audi A4's, Ford Mondeos, Vauxhall Cavaliers all in the mix...and it was exciting! And the cars sounded fantastic! You might not appreciate the style of driving that's prevalent in the BTCC these days, and you might not find the mostly FWD grid to be too interesting, compared to DTM, the Ozzy V8's, etc. but i don't really think you can call it dull.
What I loved was how close the cars were to what you could buy at the time. Okay, there might have been the odd column mounted shifter thrown in but you could still see a recognisable dashboard in the in-car cameras. Oh, those glory days.
Not to mention, my favourite car of all time, the Sierra Cosworth is the greatest touring car of all time.
DiscoColin said:
I used to love the DTM back when it was production based, but times change and frankly for me it has lost it long ago. All those 190s, E30 M3s, the barge like A8 and eventually the Alfa 155s were fantastic. What it has become now is so bespoke that it just leaves you wondering why they have to resemble road cars at all....
+1....Those Alfas where just beauties... and those Opels Calibras also... now it is just like F1 too many rules and no fun...
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