RE: Beijing show: Jag's Supercharged V6 and turbo four

[AlexiusG55]

Lowtimer said:

If this new supercharged V6 is based on the old V8, that rather implies that it is a 90 degree included angle design, i.e. basically a 90 degree V8 with the front two cylinders sawn off, rather than the normal 60 degree included angle V6. In which case it won't be very smooth at all. The last time we had a mass produced engine with that layout was the Douvrin V6 used by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo (not to mention De Lorean). It was sort of OK but nothing special at all.

Well, GM sold their "3800" 90-degree Buick V6, a distant cousin of the Rover V8, until 2008. I don't think anything with that engine was ever sold in Europe, but they did make a lot of them.

The Maserati Biturbo V6 (descended from the F1 engines by way of the Merak) also outlasted the Douvrin by a couple of years.

[M3SMGE46]

I do like the new Jags... I like the any fuel turbine project car..come on Jag hurry up and start producing the engine at least...

I would also like to see a nice V8 XFR with 600+ BHP and all wheel drive... something that would be nice to run around using half the pistons for town use with high mpg and that would also revert to half the engine use for cruising but them chime in with full power on request with support from power going to the front wheels as required...

Also the VB Evoke .. nice try but a "proper" Jag tie in with LR and a seriously quick light weight power 4x4 that can compete with Bowler would be great... but I suppose bying out Bowler or at least joining with them could work well for both Jag and LR

and FFS car makers..the population is getting bigger NOT smaller.. wot about an adjustable seat squab that winds the side bolsters OUT for the wider arse..! and back in for the narrow hipped partners.. I have walked away from car deals simply because most modern cars have quite narrow seats, especially the sports versions, yet I found the BMW sports seats in the M3 , once the seat side bolsters had been pushed out, quite comfortable even over long distances...

I hate our VW Golf GTD simply becuase of it's seats and still ove to drive my now ancient Ford Focus 1.6 zetec with over 200,000 miles on mainly because it's a brilliant car and it has a set of Vauxhall recaro (GSi) wide arse sports seats fitted..

I've seen cars with back rest seat bolsters that are adjustable so why not seat squab adjustable bolsters...?

Edited by M3SMGE46 on Monday 23 April 16:35

[Black S2K]

The C-series in the old Legends & NSX is a 90 degree as well. It's a bit three-cylinder at idle, but in rather nice one it gets going.

Balancer shafts typically absorb around 5 BHP, so one might presume the same for these odd counter-rotating weights. One does wonder about the actual saving once those are added plus the screw on top. But I suppose Jaguar has little choice in the matter if it wishes to meet the regulations.

[dave stew]

M3SMGE46 said:

I do like the new Jags... I like the any fuel turbine project car..come on Jag hurry up and start producing the engine at least...

I would also like to see a nice V8 XFR with 600+ BHP and all wheel drive... something that would be nice to run around using half the pistons for town use with high mpg and that would also revert to half the engine use for cruising but them chime in with full power on request with support from power going to the front wheels as required...

Also the VB Evoke .. nice try but a "proper" Jag tie in with LR and a seriously quick light weight power 4x4 that can compete with Bowler would be great... but I suppose bying out Bowler or at least joining with them could work well for both Jag and LR

and FFS car makers..the population is getting bigger NOT smaller.. wot about an adjustable seat squab that winds the side bolsters OUT for the wider arse..! and back in for the narrow hipped partners.. I have walked away from car deals simply because most modern cars have quite narrow seats, especially the sports versions, yet I found the BMW sports seats in the M3 , once the seat side bolsters had been pushed out, quite comfortable even over long distances...

I hate our VW Golf GTD simply becuase of it's seats and still ove to drive my now ancient Ford Focus 1.6 zetec with over 200,000 miles on mainly because it's a brilliant car and it has a set of Vauxhall recaro (GSi) wide arse sports seats fitted..

I've seen cars with back rest seat bolsters that are adjustable so why not seat squab adjustable bolsters...?

Edited by M3SMGE46 on Monday 23 April 16:35

Off topic I know, but I have a thing for comfortable car seats. OK, I drive a Volvo V70 with heated leather seats, but why do so many German cars still have rock hard seats? We had a 2002 Golf with terrible 'sports' seats. Why do BMW offer 'comfort' seats as an option? (Yes, I know it's to make more profit but the whining won't sound as good!)

[NGK210]

ferdyg said:

NGK210 said:

And while it's about it, shouldn't Jag get around to modding the XJ's engine bay to accept the Range Rover's V8 turbodiesel??

why?

For perceived prestige; to offer a rival to the A8 V8 TDI; have an engine option that BMW and M-B eschew with the 7-series and S-class; offer an appealing compromise to V8-loving/diesel-sceptical US punters who are also conscious of their carbon footprint.

And a V8 sounds nicer and goes better than a V6

[Chris Hinds]

Would be good to see the 2.0 Petrol in the XF in the UK market plus the 3.0 Supercharged in the Discovery/Range Rover Sport/Range Rover as an alternative engine option. That might be just me though. On the other hand it increasingly looks like another ten years will see the end of the V8/V10/V12 in just about everything non-specialist in the European market and maybe further afield too.

• must have a v8 whilst it's still possible*

[Triumph Man]

urquattro said:

Triumph Man said:

I hate this recent trend of turbo charged 4 cylinder engines in larger cars, the new 3-series for example, and now in a Jaguar XJ! I know it's for emissions reasons, but why does everyone seem to forget about the lovely sound of a 6 cylinder engine?

what one like this makes you smile?

wibble

[budgie smuggler]

rm89 said:

Nissan have used a supercharger instead of turbo for their 3-cyl 1.2 in the Micra. Has better emissions, more power and higher (quoted) combined mpg than the normally aspirated base model, and also the VAG 1.2 turbo in the Ibiza/Polo etc - by quite a significant margin in the latter case. I know it's a slightly different application, but it does show that the technology is there to allow superchargers to return very good economy & CO2 figures.

Can you use a turbocharger with a miller engine?

[Stew2000]

Triumph Man said:

urquattro said:

Triumph Man said:

I hate this recent trend of turbo charged 4 cylinder engines in larger cars, the new 3-series for example, and now in a Jaguar XJ! I know it's for emissions reasons, but why does everyone seem to forget about the lovely sound of a 6 cylinder engine?

what one like this makes you smile?

wibble

My turn.

[CatScan]

Lowtimer said:

The last time we had a mass produced engine with that layout was the Douvrin V6 used by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo (not to mention De Lorean). It was sort of OK but nothing special at all.

...And the previous gen to the current Mercedes Benz V6, which was in production until a couple of years ago (2010 methinks).

[dvs_dave]

NGK210 said:

ferdyg said:

NGK210 said:

And while it's about it, shouldn't Jag get around to modding the XJ's engine bay to accept the Range Rover's V8 turbodiesel??

why?

For perceived prestige; to offer a rival to the A8 V8 TDI; have an engine option that BMW and M-B eschew with the 7-series and S-class; offer an appealing compromise to V8-loving/diesel-sceptical US punters who are also conscious of their carbon footprint.

And a V8 sounds nicer and goes better than a V6

Diesel engines for road use in the USA have much stricter emissions regs than elsewhere. The US has to have market specific versions engineered (featuring urea injection systems, super duper particulate filters etc.) so they cost quite a bit more than the equivalent petrol engine.

Consequently the range of certified diesels from the Euro makes is limited to the Merc 350 CDI, BMW 35D, and VAG 2.0/3.0 TDI engines. JLR don't offer any diesels as it's probably too expensive for them to engineer one given the likely sales.

[jamoor]

they should be making a new x type first...

[Stew2000]

jamoor said:

they should be making a new x type first...

An X-Type would be perfect for these engines.

[LuS1fer]

My interest has a start/stop function whenever it reads a car does that.

And a white XJ? Really?

[tommy vercetti]

LuS1fer said:

My interest has a start/stop function whenever it reads a car does that.

And a white XJ? Really?

Guy not far from my house owns a white XJ. Looks beautiful and properly mean from the front, and the white rsuits it better than something like silver, imo.

[samwise]

The 2litre turbo will be for markets like China, I doubt you will ever see one in the UK. Even so, 240bhp engine with a smooth 8 speed auto box, its not gonna hang around or drive like a tractor, the XJ is reported to be the best handling car of its class, even in SuperSport spec with a whacking great V8 in the front, imagine how well it will handle with half that front end weight gone.

[mikEsprit]

240 hp = 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds

340 hp = 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds

I know these are big cars, but short of weighing 8 tons or having square wheels, that seems painfully unquick.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Lowtimer said:

If this new supercharged V6 is based on the old V8, that rather implies that it is a 90 degree included angle design, i.e. basically a 90 degree V8 with the front two cylinders sawn off, rather than the normal 60 degree included angle V6. In which case it won't be very smooth at all. The last time we had a mass produced engine with that layout was the Douvrin V6 used by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo (not to mention De Lorean). It was sort of OK but nothing special at all.

Just need to lob in some balancer shafts... or as the JLR boys have done, put counter-rotating weights front and rear. Adds to the cost of the engine and is another set of things to wear and go wrong. But its cheaper than redesigning a block and then retooling a factory to make it! Besides I am sure there are a lot more V6's that were born out of larger V8 engines and even 60 degree V's don't give you perfect balance... its just not as bad.

Only 3 engine arrangements offer perfect balance

I6
V12
Rotary/wankel

the rest all need some kind of additional balancing depending on their size. A 2.2 petrol four probably has twin balancers, but smaller engines like a 1.6 generally have acceptable levels of vibration. A 90 deg V6 generally suffers the same end to end vibrations you get in a 3 cylinder engine. Only need 1 balance shaft nestled in the valley and it can be controlled (I4's need a pair to cope!). Mercedes managed it with their V6's made from V8 blueprints.

[JagLover]

mikEsprit said:

240 hp = 0 to 60 in 7.5 seconds

340 hp = 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds

I know these are big cars, but short of weighing 8 tons or having square wheels, that seems painfully unquick.

They are hardly disgraceful stats for a large saloon?

I don't think you can complain about an entry level model with a 7.5 0-60 time.

[Stew2000]

Because a longitudinal G is what we really want in a "limo"