RE: Beijing show: Jag's Supercharged V6 and turbo four
Discussion
AlexiusG55 said:
Lowtimer said:
If this new supercharged V6 is based on the old V8, that rather implies that it is a 90 degree included angle design, i.e. basically a 90 degree V8 with the front two cylinders sawn off, rather than the normal 60 degree included angle V6. In which case it won't be very smooth at all. The last time we had a mass produced engine with that layout was the Douvrin V6 used by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo (not to mention De Lorean). It was sort of OK but nothing special at all.
Well, GM sold their "3800" 90-degree Buick V6, a distant cousin of the Rover V8, until 2008. I don't think anything with that engine was ever sold in Europe, but they did make a lot of them.The Maserati Biturbo V6 (descended from the F1 engines by way of the Merak) also outlasted the Douvrin by a couple of years.
AlexiusG55 said:
Well, GM sold their "3800" 90-degree Buick V6, a distant cousin of the Rover V8, until 2008. I don't think anything with that engine was ever sold in Europe, but they did make a lot of them.
Assuming this is the same 3800 V6 used in the 4th gen Camaro, that was sold here officially from 1998-2000 - probably longer in mainland Europe where LHD was not such a perceived drawback and where the 3.8 (I believe) made more tax sense than the 5.7 V8.Lowtimer said:
If this new supercharged V6 is based on the old V8, that rather implies that it is a 90 degree included angle design, i.e. basically a 90 degree V8 with the front two cylinders sawn off, rather than the normal 60 degree included angle V6. In which case it won't be very smooth at all. The last time we had a mass produced engine with that layout was the Douvrin V6 used by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo (not to mention De Lorean). It was sort of OK but nothing special at all.
Porsche Panamera v6? Thats a 90 degree v8 with two cylinders sawn off.Otispunkmeyer said:
Just need to lob in some balancer shafts... or as the JLR boys have done, put counter-rotating weights front and rear. Adds to the cost of the engine and is another set of things to wear and go wrong. But its cheaper than redesigning a block and then retooling a factory to make it! Besides I am sure there are a lot more V6's that were born out of larger V8 engines and even 60 degree V's don't give you perfect balance... its just not as bad.
Only 3 engine arrangements offer perfect balance
I6
V12
Rotary/wankel
the rest all need some kind of additional balancing depending on their size. A 2.2 petrol four probably has twin balancers, but smaller engines like a 1.6 generally have acceptable levels of vibration. A 90 deg V6 generally suffers the same end to end vibrations you get in a 3 cylinder engine. Only need 1 balance shaft nestled in the valley and it can be controlled (I4's need a pair to cope!). Mercedes managed it with their V6's made from V8 blueprints.
The 90° v8 with a cross-plane crank can also be perfectly balanced via the use of counterbalance weights on the crank shaft.Only 3 engine arrangements offer perfect balance
I6
V12
Rotary/wankel
the rest all need some kind of additional balancing depending on their size. A 2.2 petrol four probably has twin balancers, but smaller engines like a 1.6 generally have acceptable levels of vibration. A 90 deg V6 generally suffers the same end to end vibrations you get in a 3 cylinder engine. Only need 1 balance shaft nestled in the valley and it can be controlled (I4's need a pair to cope!). Mercedes managed it with their V6's made from V8 blueprints.
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