What happened to ride quality??
Discussion
What happened to ride quality?? As little as 10 years ago we had cars that rode well and still managed to provide thrills for the driver e.g E39 5 series, Jaguar XK, 306 GTI6, 993, 996, Boxster etc... The list goes on... The evolution of these cars today most certainly handle, but they can NOT handle the bumps and the broken surfaces we are blessed with here in the U.K.
Is it the manufactures response to the consumers perception that more is clearly better, so we end up with 19 inch wheels on a family hatchback and suspension hewed from granite to cope with the increased mass?
Or is that the manufactures have lost touch with what makes good ride quality? Have they in the main, fallen into the trap of thinking that stiff suspension and low profile tyre's means a 'sporty' drive?
There is a place for a firm, aggressive chassis setup. Its called the track! On the road a performance car that rides well will always be ahead of one that does not.
What cars do you think offered the best combination of ride quality and handling?
Lew
Is it the manufactures response to the consumers perception that more is clearly better, so we end up with 19 inch wheels on a family hatchback and suspension hewed from granite to cope with the increased mass?
Or is that the manufactures have lost touch with what makes good ride quality? Have they in the main, fallen into the trap of thinking that stiff suspension and low profile tyre's means a 'sporty' drive?
There is a place for a firm, aggressive chassis setup. Its called the track! On the road a performance car that rides well will always be ahead of one that does not.
What cars do you think offered the best combination of ride quality and handling?
Lew
Sadly, I think most people want their cars to be like that. They've been brainwashed into thinking that a stiff suspension setup is "sporty" and as such desirable. The trend for big wheels doesn't help either.
The sad thing is that most of the truly great drivers' road cars have relatively soft springs and damping.
The sad thing is that most of the truly great drivers' road cars have relatively soft springs and damping.
Edited by kambites on Monday 23 April 12:39
andrewrob said:
Low profile tyres can't help.
They certainly don't help, but in my experience the unsprung mass makes much more difference than the tyre profile. Obviously the lighter the wheel is, the less less there is for springing in the tyre side walls. Of course most cars tend to suffer from both - customers stipulate "must have 10000 inch wheels" but don't even ask what they weigh so manufacturers fit the cheapest big wheels that they can get, which are extremely heavy. I agree with what James May said recently about car manufactures getting too obsessed with "Ring" times and overlooking the fact that a average UK road surface is in a far worse state than a German Toll road and the average driver is not interested in being able to shave 4 tenths off the time it takes to do an average roundabout.
mrmr96 said:
Lets not forget that car makers are in the business of selling cars - so they will produce what there is demand for. It's not their fault if the car buying public put style above performance.
I guess you can look at it either way - it's true that manufacturers are producing what will sell, but exactly why buyers want cars that seem to suit their needs so poorly is harder to determine. At least some of the cause has to be the way modern cars are advertised by the manufacturers. The motoring press probably has more to answer for, though. kambites said:
mrmr96 said:
Lets not forget that car makers are in the business of selling cars - so they will produce what there is demand for. It's not their fault if the car buying public put style above performance.
I guess you can look at it either way - it's true that manufacturers are producing what will sell, but exactly why buyers want cars that seem to suit their needs so poorly is harder to determine. At least some of the cause has to be the way modern cars are advertised by the manufacturers. The motoring press probably has more to answer for, though. If their 'need' is to have a car which (in their opinion) looks stylish then getting a car with big wheels and a crap ride might be perfect for them.
I think it's like so many things; it's about priorities. You (and others on this thread) may put performance (whether that's speed, or ride) as a higher priority than looks - but many other people in the world prioritise differently. So a crap riding car will meet their needs so long as it's stylish, but it won't meet yours.
mrmr96 said:
Why do you think that "buyers want cars that seem to suit their needs so poorly"?
If their 'need' is to have a car which (in their opinion) looks stylish then getting a car with big wheels and a crap ride might be perfect for them.
I was referring to spring rates, not wheel sizes. I can understand the wish for big wheels whilst not wanting to spend money on decent ones; however, it seems to me that many modern "sports suspension" setups are so stiff that they have no advantage over a softer setup on the road. If their 'need' is to have a car which (in their opinion) looks stylish then getting a car with big wheels and a crap ride might be perfect for them.
You can't tell how stiffly a car is sprung by looking at it.
Edited by kambites on Monday 23 April 14:20
mrmr96 said:
Why do you think that "buyers want cars that seem to suit their needs so poorly"?
If their 'need' is to have a car which (in their opinion) looks stylish then getting a car with big wheels and a crap ride might be perfect for them.
I think it's like so many things; it's about priorities. You (and others on this thread) may put performance (whether that's speed, or ride) as a higher priority than looks - but many other people in the world prioritise differently. So a crap riding car will meet their needs so long as it's stylish, but it won't meet yours.
Exactly, why the OP is moaning is beyond be . It's called a test drive, if you don't like it , DON'T BUY IT If their 'need' is to have a car which (in their opinion) looks stylish then getting a car with big wheels and a crap ride might be perfect for them.
I think it's like so many things; it's about priorities. You (and others on this thread) may put performance (whether that's speed, or ride) as a higher priority than looks - but many other people in the world prioritise differently. So a crap riding car will meet their needs so long as it's stylish, but it won't meet yours.
angusc43 said:
I couldn't agree more with the OP.
That's why I went for an E Class on 17's with air suspension. Suitably wafty on the base setting and a bit more hardcore when needed.
What are you agreeing with ? You telling me you had to order your e class with 17" wheels from the factory because you couldn't find any for sale in this country ? That's why I went for an E Class on 17's with air suspension. Suitably wafty on the base setting and a bit more hardcore when needed.
Marketing x3
1. The Nurburgring and hard suspension. Who cares how fast you car goes round an obsolete race circuit in Germany .... when you're either on the M25 or on your way to Tesco.
2. Big wheels and skinny tyres. Look nice in pictures but give poor ride.
3. Run-flat tyres. Concrete ride. And you still get punctures .... but can't repair them.
1. The Nurburgring and hard suspension. Who cares how fast you car goes round an obsolete race circuit in Germany .... when you're either on the M25 or on your way to Tesco.
2. Big wheels and skinny tyres. Look nice in pictures but give poor ride.
3. Run-flat tyres. Concrete ride. And you still get punctures .... but can't repair them.
lou556 said:
What cars do you think offered the best combination of ride quality and handling?
For my commute over typically bumpy rubbish b-roads - Elise. Never uncomfortable, always engaging. Near perfect.I've done the same route in an Evora and it was as fun as the Elise, except it felt like the road had been resurfaced. Amazing.
kambites said:
I guess you can look at it either way - it's true that manufacturers are producing what will sell, but exactly why buyers want cars that seem to suit their needs so poorly is harder to determine. At least some of the cause has to be the way modern cars are advertised by the manufacturers. The motoring press probably has more to answer for, though.
I don't think it's that. Even on a supposedly knowledgeable enthusiasts forum like this one its clear that the overriding consideration for many when choosing a car is "image image image".Big wheels and low suspension are there to impress the neighbours into believing the car is "sporty" and powerful, and since what other people think is the crucial consideration, we'll continue to get massive wheels and low rock hard suspension.
The popularity of any Audi S-line is proof positive of this, look at the prolification of dull engined 2.0TDI's with pointless S-Line spec 18 inch wheels and spoilers.
FellowPazzini said:
Mondeo?
Yep. The Mk3 Mondeo is a brilliant all-rounder in this regard. Even my ST220 with its rubber band tyres and performance-oriented chassis is very comfortable on long journeys and doesn't shake my fillings out on rougher urban roads. Show it some bends and it shines, too. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff