What happened to ride quality??
Discussion
Ari said:
I don't think it's that. Even on a supposedly knowledgeable enthusiasts forum like this one its clear that the overriding consideration for many when choosing a car is "image image image".
Big wheels and low suspension are there to impress the neighbours into believing the car is "sporty" and powerful, and since what other people think is the crucial consideration, we'll continue to get massive wheels and low rock hard suspension.
The popularity of any Audi S-line is proof positive of this, look at the prolification of dull engined 2.0TDI's with pointless S-Line spec 18 inch wheels and spoilers.
Yes of course, but the question is why is big wheels and hard suspension considered sporty, and why is sporty considered to be a good thing in a society which generally frowns on enthusiastic driving. Big wheels and low suspension are there to impress the neighbours into believing the car is "sporty" and powerful, and since what other people think is the crucial consideration, we'll continue to get massive wheels and low rock hard suspension.
The popularity of any Audi S-line is proof positive of this, look at the prolification of dull engined 2.0TDI's with pointless S-Line spec 18 inch wheels and spoilers.
kambites said:
Yes of course, but the question is why is big wheels and hard suspension considered sporty, and why is sporty considered to be a good thing in a society which generally frowns on enthusiastic driving.
Young, arrogant salesmen types love their 'image'. They see their Audi with factory-spec huge wheels, tinted windows, bumpers, side skirts and concrete shock absorbers and think they've got some sort of prestigious monster of a car, akin to a supercar with similar design characteristics. They'll usually drive them accordingly, too. In reality, they couldn't be more deluded but the manufacturers are simply coming up with what the public want.Those who frown upon enthusiastic driving are generally of an older generation than as described above and can more often be found
Howard- said:
FellowPazzini said:
Mondeo?
Yep. The Mk3 Mondeo is a brilliant all-rounder in this regard. Even my ST220 with its rubber band tyres and performance-oriented chassis is very comfortable on long journeys and doesn't shake my fillings out on rougher urban roads. Show it some bends and it shines, too. 
but no less love for the cars as a result kambites said:
Yes of course, but the question is why is big wheels and hard suspension considered sporty, and why is sporty considered to be a good thing in a society which generally frowns on enthusiastic driving.
It's the sporting image, rather than the sporting performance that is important to most. Consider that most drivers couldn't make progress to save their lifes, and even some people behind the wheels in performance cars are hopelessly cack handed. They don't care if Walther Rohrl would approve of their car's ability to skirt the Karussell or negotiate Bergwerk, they just want everyone else on the motorway to think they are cool.
frosted said:
angusc43 said:
I couldn't agree more with the OP.
That's why I went for an E Class on 17's with air suspension. Suitably wafty on the base setting and a bit more hardcore when needed.
What are you agreeing with ? You telling me you had to order your e class with 17" wheels from the factory because you couldn't find any for sale in this country ? That's why I went for an E Class on 17's with air suspension. Suitably wafty on the base setting and a bit more hardcore when needed.
When I bought my E Class (second hand) I deliberately looked for on that had 17's not 18's and that had air and not steel springs.
You see, on Saurday morning I took my son to football training, then out for lunch. I was not actually lapping the 'Ring and so had no need for 21 in rims and suspension made out of granite.
HTH
angusc43 said:
I'm agreeing with the OP in bemoaning the trend away from decent ride.
When I bought my E Class (second hand) I deliberately looked for on that had 17's not 18's and that had air and not steel springs.
You see, on Saurday morning I took my son to football training, then out for lunch. I was not actually lapping the 'Ring and so had no need for 21 in rims and suspension made out of granite.
HTH
It is actually getting hard to find a lot of cars that are available to buy on sensible wheels without ordering from the factory. Have a look at the BMWs in the dealer network. The E90 3-series was designed and optimised for 16" wheels, but almost all the run-out models in the dealer network, even the 2.0 models, are M-Sport spec and on 18" at least. Six cylinder models are frequently on 19". Madness.When I bought my E Class (second hand) I deliberately looked for on that had 17's not 18's and that had air and not steel springs.
You see, on Saurday morning I took my son to football training, then out for lunch. I was not actually lapping the 'Ring and so had no need for 21 in rims and suspension made out of granite.
HTH
Just came back from a stag do this weekend and was feeling worse for ware in the morning so chucked the keys of my 12 year old A6 to one of the other lads, within a few minutes of driving it he made comment that another friend of his has just bought a new A6 and how much nicer the ride was in my older one, far more comfortable place to be. Chap was no petrolhead, just normal member of the non-car-obsessed public so I'd say people do notice these things, its not just enthusiasts thinking whats going on.
A friend of mine runs a Mk2 MR2 and always comments how smooth the ride is in my Clio 182.
Saying that, I got to drive my Mum's Seat Ibiza Mk4 1.4 the other day, even though she bought it back in 2008 when they first come out, she's only put 11000 miles on the clock (still has that new car scent) ans it was really comfortable, the same as my Dad's Focus which was one of the last of the facelifted Mk2's. My Dad thinks otherwise though, his last car was a Merc E220 which was apparently a lot nicer.
It all depends on what you're used to
Saying that, I got to drive my Mum's Seat Ibiza Mk4 1.4 the other day, even though she bought it back in 2008 when they first come out, she's only put 11000 miles on the clock (still has that new car scent) ans it was really comfortable, the same as my Dad's Focus which was one of the last of the facelifted Mk2's. My Dad thinks otherwise though, his last car was a Merc E220 which was apparently a lot nicer.
It all depends on what you're used to
frosted said:
Exactly, why the OP is moaning is beyond be . It's called a test drive, if you don't like it , DON'T BUY IT
More of a observation than a moan. 'If you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT' Fair statement. But what if you can't buy the car you want, take for example the E90 3 series, the only model to really ride well was the 320ED. One model hardly caters to all tastes, it's because of the bigger & better mentality that we are in this position. I say just bring back the cars pre active ride, runflat tyre's & wheels the size of the moon and be done with it :;
My garage:
Ford Puma 1.7 Black Ed - Handles extremely well - Rides fine for a sports coupe of its price bracket -
BMW 328i Mtec - Classic RWD handling - Rides well, copes with broken surfaces with ease -
Jaguar XJ6 Sport - Rides extremely well - Does NOT fall of a cliff when you go around a corner -
Mazda 6, not the current version. Pretty much same chassis as mondeo if I am correct. I am very impressed. Controlled body roll, good grip yet it doesn't crash through pot holes and absorbs uneven road surfaces v well. Coming from a base spec 156 that did the pots holes and uneven road thing well but wallowed in the corners the Mazda is a huge improvement. It also has sensible sized 16" rims
The Jag XK was mentioned, I also have an XKR and due to the fashionable 20" rims and skinny profile tyres it is pretty poor on rough potholed roads, but corners nice and flat.
I personally blame fashion and the proliferation of stupid sized tyres. Before buying the Mazda i looked at at Astra estate in SRI spec. There is no justification for that size of wheel for road use with a car that has only 150hp. It handled quite well until the first pothole was found. I suppose in comparison to that the XKR does a pretty good job!
The Jag XK was mentioned, I also have an XKR and due to the fashionable 20" rims and skinny profile tyres it is pretty poor on rough potholed roads, but corners nice and flat.
I personally blame fashion and the proliferation of stupid sized tyres. Before buying the Mazda i looked at at Astra estate in SRI spec. There is no justification for that size of wheel for road use with a car that has only 150hp. It handled quite well until the first pothole was found. I suppose in comparison to that the XKR does a pretty good job!
t country look like this;
HowlerMonkey said:
The funny thing is that the fastest race cars in the world use very high aspect ratios.
I've pulled over 1.0g on the skidpad at summit point in a 240z on 60 series tires.
Some of the greatest drivers cars I have experienced have run high aspect ratio tyres, as a result the progression between slip and grip is sublime and as a bonus you usually get really great steering feel. I've pulled over 1.0g on the skidpad at summit point in a 240z on 60 series tires.
E.G
MY97 Integra Type R - 195-55-15
----------- Which is a better drivers car?
MY11 Civic Type R - 225 - 40 - 18
lou556 said:
HowlerMonkey said:
The funny thing is that the fastest race cars in the world use very high aspect ratios.
I've pulled over 1.0g on the skidpad at summit point in a 240z on 60 series tires.
Some of the greatest drivers cars I have experienced have run high aspect ratio tyres, as a result the progression between slip and grip is sublime and as a bonus you usually get really great steering feel. I've pulled over 1.0g on the skidpad at summit point in a 240z on 60 series tires.
E.G
MY97 Integra Type R - 195-55-15
----------- Which is a better drivers car?
MY11 Civic Type R - 225 - 40 - 18
The point remains that much of this is driven by styling rather than dynamic considerations (although one must also bear in mind that heavier cars need bigger brakes, which fit in larger wheels, there's a vicious circle of growing mass and power to blamne too).
On the Formula 1 cars, I'm not sure you can assume that the wheels and tyres they use are the size that the designers would choose given a free choice.
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