RE: Time for Tea? BR-Z and GT-86 take on MX-5

[DanDC5]

To sum up this and every other GT-86/BR-Z vs the world thread -

[Johnboy Mac]

s m said:

They seem to still offer the M-sport version - even though it's a bit heavier ( 200kg ) than the Toyota/Subaru it does offer a 3 litre 215bhp naturally aspirated six. Performance is roughly the same as has been quoted for the Jap pair ( 60 in 6.4, 100 in 17 and top end of 145 ).
It's a rwd 2-door coupe , offers 4 seats and they're quite a wieldy little car compared to a 3-series.

Dynamically it's on par with the BRZ/GT86? I'm asking because I don't know, not driven either. But I reckon the 1-Series is very underrated if it's got a chassis & steering to match these new Jap machines, never mind the 200kg weight difference. I'm surprised the BM wasn't included in the magazine group tests.

[frosted]

Johnboy Mac said:

Dynamically it's on par with the BRZ/GT86? I'm asking because I don't know, not driven either. But I reckon the 1-Series is very underrated if it's got a chassis & steering to match these new Jap machines, never mind the 200kg weight difference. I'm surprised the BM wasn't included in the magazine group tests.

200kg is a lot of weight

[StormLoaded]

MX7 said:

It does have climate and remote entry. I think you're confused with the poverty spec that they announced for the JDM.

without wanting to split hairs.
The scion has air con (the same unit as a 10year old yaris), not (dual zone) climate control as per the UK.
and they keyless entry in the states is a remote keyfob, compared to a zone sensor fob that unlocks as you touch the handle (wirh push button start) in the uk.

[Johnboy Mac]

frosted said:

200kg is a lot of weight

I think so.

[kambites]

I don't think the 1-series is really a competitor. It's far less "driver focussed" than the Toyota/Subaru and whilst that's not the same as saying it's worse to drive, I suspect that it is. The 1-series is good to drive for a mainstream hatchback/saloon, but it never feels anything like a sports car to me. I haven't driven the BR-Z/GT86 but I will be very disappointed if it's anything like the 1-series.

[MX7]

StormLoaded said:

MX7 said:

It does have climate and remote entry. I think you're confused with the poverty spec that they announced for the JDM.

without wanting to split hairs.
The scion has air con (the same unit as a 10year old yaris), not (dual zone) climate control as per the UK.
and they keyless entry in the states is a remote keyfob, compared to a zone sensor fob that unlocks as you touch the handle (wirh push button start) in the uk.

"Scion = budget version, so cloth seats, key, no climate control, stereo from the 90s, no rear spoiler etc."

I was trying to be polite. What you said was bks.

[Ecosseven]

Does anyone know if the weight of around 1210kg for the GT85 / BRZ includes a 75kg allowance for a driver? I know that the kerb weight of 1173 kg for a soft top 2.0 mazda MX-5 sport tech does include the 75kg allowance.

[s m]

Johnboy Mac said:

s m said:

They seem to still offer the M-sport version - even though it's a bit heavier ( 200kg ) than the Toyota/Subaru it does offer a 3 litre 215bhp naturally aspirated six. Performance is roughly the same as has been quoted for the Jap pair ( 60 in 6.4, 100 in 17 and top end of 145 ).
It's a rwd 2-door coupe , offers 4 seats and they're quite a wieldy little car compared to a 3-series.

Dynamically it's on par with the BRZ/GT86? I'm asking because I don't know, not driven either. But I reckon the 1-Series is very underrated if it's got a chassis & steering to match these new Jap machines, never mind the 200kg weight difference. I'm surprised the BM wasn't included in the magazine group tests.

I've not driven either of the BRZ/GT86 pair and like you I doubt it's got the same dynamics......however, I was quite impressed with the one I've had a go in. Felt very taut and at least as quick as an old E36 328. I think when the Yank online mags had a 135i through a slalom against the V8 M3 it did Ok in quick transient changes. It's lighter than the 2-seater 370Z which has been included and has more seats than the MX5. I would say it's in the same 'class' of car if nothing else even if it's stodgier

[StormLoaded]

MX7 said:

"Scion = budget version, so cloth seats, key, no climate control, stereo from the 90s, no rear spoiler etc."

I was trying to be polite. What you said was bks.

was what i wrote not factually correct though?

MX7 said:

"It's nothing to do with taxes. It's a £10k difference."

I was pointing out there is a difference in spec, aswell as taxes, vat , import costs whatever.. so yes there is a 10k difference.
We're not being ripped off. as someone else posted this car is 39k elsewhere (in finland?)

[otolith]

number1nesta said:

Doesn't matter whether you put a Toyota badge or Subaru badge on the bonnet, it's still about as undesirable as it can get.

Strength of negative opinion inversely proportional to probability of filling in garage profile.

[kambites]

Ecosseven said:

Does anyone know if the weight of around 1210kg for the GT85 / BRZ includes a 75kg allowance for a driver? I know that the kerb weight of 1173 kg for a soft top 2.0 mazda MX-5 sport tech does include the 75kg allowance.

Good question.

[Johnboy Mac]

kambites said:

Good question.

It is a good question, especially when I read this below. I understood 'kerb' allowed 75kg for the driver, half tank of fuel and complete tool kit including spare wheel where applicable - very unsure now.



''General remarks for specifications

Kerb weight

As far as possible, AutoZine refers kerb weight to DIN kerb weight, i.e., car with all fluid and fuel tank 90% full, but without driver.

Most European car makers now quote only kerb weight according to new ECE (European) standard, which is DIN kerb weight + 75kg (68kg driver and 7kg luggage).

Many journalists confuse DIN and ECE figures thus made wrong comparison between cars. For a fair comparison, AutoZine always converts ECE figures into DIN. However, sometimes it is impossible to identify the obtained figures.

SAE (American) and JIS (Japanese) kerb weight seems to be different too - only half tank of fuel is needed. Otherwise same as DIN. This could be around 20-30kg lighter than DIN for most cars.

Some sports car specialists quote only dry weight, which is the car without any fluid, fuel and driver. Generally this could be around 90-100kg lighter than DIN''

[otolith]

AndrewW-G said:

lgomgf said:

MarkRSi said:

Could someone point me towards a new RWD 2+2 coupe with more than 200bhp for around £25k or less?

http://cdn.volkswagen.co.uk/new/scirocco/home

Is that not FWD . . . . .

And an ugly squashed Golf?

Edited by otolith on Wednesday 2nd May 12:13

[frosted]

otolith said:

And an ugly squashed Golf?

Edited by otolith on Wednesday 2nd May 12:13

The scirocco did look sublime for about 6 months 3 years ago

I'm excited about this car, 4 seats , 200bhp ( really slow around here ) , rwd, manual and Toyota reliability.

Can't wait till they reach 10k

[MX7]

StormLoaded said:

MX7 said:

"Scion = budget version, so cloth seats, key, no climate control, stereo from the 90s, no rear spoiler etc."

I was trying to be polite. What you said was bks.

was what i wrote not factually correct though?

If you were really making a distinction between climate and air con, and key and key less, yes I guess you are correct. However, I think that the fact that you describe a stereo with Bluetooth, Ipod and USB as being from the 90s suggests that you are in fact splitting hairs and the US version is nowhere near the "budget version" that you imagined.

StormLoaded said:

MX7 said:

"It's nothing to do with taxes. It's a £10k difference."

I was pointing out there is a difference in spec, aswell as taxes, vat , import costs whatever.. so yes there is a 10k difference.
We're not being ripped off. as someone else posted this car is 39k elsewhere (in finland?)

So as long as the most expensive markets charge more, we're getting a good deal?!!

Really, if you think that there's a logical reason why a very similar car costs £10k less in another country, so be it.

[Oddball RS]

frosted said:

Are you asking me if the rx8 is full four seater ? of course it is, spent many miles in there

Sorry it looked like you were saying they were comparable?

[356Speedster]

Like others, this video has left me feeling quite disappointed at the Toyobaru pair. I never thought either of them looked very inspiring and that the engines sounded a bit limp, but was prepared to wait for something akin to this test. As they tested them against an MX5, I’m pleased to see a reference point I can relate to (my wife had one, I drove it lots).

I’m sorry to say that my fears have come to life. The MX5 always felt like it needed another 50bhp to be anything other than “a bit quick” and to see this pair of £25K (plus options) new drivers cars struggle to pass it on long straights, leaves me cold. Sure it’s not all about straight line pace, but my mate’s Clio 172 and numerous diesels gave my wife’s MX5 a bit of a drubbing a few yrs ago and there’s only so far you can exploit the handling on public roads to claw back a deficit anyway.

With plans of swapping wife’s ST for something new next yr (that’s fun for me to drive and with a small back seat for the baby), I’m afraid these are off the list. At that price, with dull looks inside & out (all highly subjective) and with significantly less pace than her ST, the only thing this pair offer is a decent chassis. I could have forgiven the looks, if the entire mechanical package was enough to compensate, but it isn’t. And if there is a turbo version to come later, it’ll be £30K and prices itself against a lot of other metal. Oh well, I’m ooot, the search continues.

[MX7]

I just checked the Toyota site.

StormLoaded said:

leather seats standard

Standard:
•Sports fabric seats

Optional:
•Black leather and alcantara heated sports seats - £1,600


I think that clears it up.

[kambites]

How many cars can you buy for 25k which are actually faster in a straight line (genuine question, straight line speed has never interested me enough to look)?