RE: Time for Tea? BR-Z and GT-86 take on MX-5
Discussion
As I've posted on this thread, I also can't understand the pricing:
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Time will tell if I'm wrong, but Evo's verdict on how it drives and interior quality (dire for the money) doesn't bode well. I should actually mention that I really like the GT86, but just feel that Toyota UK have badly misjudged the price. Another thread mentioned there only being 200 UK pre-orders, which if true is truly a dire result given many years of media hype.
To sum up, at £20k I'd seriously look at buying one. At £25k no chance.
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Time will tell if I'm wrong, but Evo's verdict on how it drives and interior quality (dire for the money) doesn't bode well. I should actually mention that I really like the GT86, but just feel that Toyota UK have badly misjudged the price. Another thread mentioned there only being 200 UK pre-orders, which if true is truly a dire result given many years of media hype.
To sum up, at £20k I'd seriously look at buying one. At £25k no chance.
Olivera said:
As I've posted on this thread, I also can't understand the pricing:
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Time will tell if I'm wrong, but Evo's verdict on how it drives and interior quality (dire for the money) doesn't bode well. I should actually mention that I really like the GT86, but just feel that Toyota UK have badly misjudged the price. Another thread mentioned there only being 200 UK pre-orders, which if true is truly a dire result given many years of media hype.
To sum up, at £20k I'd seriously look at buying one. At £25k no chance.
Nail. Head.http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Time will tell if I'm wrong, but Evo's verdict on how it drives and interior quality (dire for the money) doesn't bode well. I should actually mention that I really like the GT86, but just feel that Toyota UK have badly misjudged the price. Another thread mentioned there only being 200 UK pre-orders, which if true is truly a dire result given many years of media hype.
To sum up, at £20k I'd seriously look at buying one. At £25k no chance.
When I see reviews in video and read them about the GT-86 I always get the impression the testers are really really keen to love it and are speaking positively about it but not really believing what they say. Odd but I am feeling that they have actually not got it quite right and once the hype has died down it will be seen as a bit meh.
HighwayStar said:
Lukeylikey... Give up on the business lesson, his mind is made up.
Not at all, even with condescending comments like "business lesson", my mind is open, but unless you can back up your % and figures with cold hard facts rather than the usual internet, heres what i think but cant prove i am right or you are wrong, ill stick to the figures that are available to everyone, for example as below Even with Lukeylikely +40% on a GTR JDM retail there was £10+k in that car somewhere and i would be damned if Nissan HQ are selling to Nissan UK at more than JDM retail.
jetpilot said:
Not at all, even with condescending comments like "business lesson", my mind is open, but unless you can back up your % and figures with cold hard facts rather than the usual internet, heres what i think but cant prove i am right or you are wrong, ill stick to the figures that are available to everyone, for example as below
Even with Lukeylikely +40% on a GTR JDM retail there was £10+k in that car somewhere and i would be damned if Nissan HQ are selling to Nissan UK at more than JDM retail.
Fair point, you'll have to take that up with him... I was speaking from a more general stand point, a dealership selling a widely available range, not specialist JDM imports... Apologies.Even with Lukeylikely +40% on a GTR JDM retail there was £10+k in that car somewhere and i would be damned if Nissan HQ are selling to Nissan UK at more than JDM retail.
otolith said:
So this should be 20k? How much should an entry level Audi TT be then?
I'm not sure the 2 are direct competitors (one is a 2-seater, the other a 4), but now you bring it up, the £24K starting price of the TT looks rather good and the £27K 210bhp (154g co2 and 258lb/ft) version doesn't look as bad either. Factor in the inevitably better MPG and depreciation and you've got to really want one of the twins.otolith said:
Sorry, don't get it - why is a hatchback in a frock worth more than a similarly powerful bespoke coupe?
I have a TT, the TTS model... It's on my profile... Another common mistake, they are not Golfs in a frock. They share the rear boot floor which is steel. The doors and tailgate are also steel... The rest is aluminium, see where the money has gone? And that's all models. Just a shame Audi play safe with the handling.otolith said:
Sorry, don't get it - why is a hatchback in a frock worth more than a similarly powerful bespoke coupe?
As I've said upteen times on this thread, when I judge value, I look at the whole package. The TT is a lot better looking, has much better build quality inside & out, will retain more of it's value (judging by normal Toyota / Scoob residuals), the 160bhp £24K model is a little quicker, the 210bhp model is quite a bit quicker (1.5sec 0-60, not that that's the most important thing, but in-gear with the extra torque it should be a good chunk quicker again), the emissions are lower, fuel consumption higher and it'll be more refined.... on the flip side the twins will be a keener steer, that's a given. Unfortunately on balance, I'd have to say the TT would win out in my book... not that I want one of those either, just to be clear, I'm just responding to your comparisson with my opinion 
The TT may not be a "Golf in a frock" but it does do a remarkably good impression of one to drive. 
And I'm not at all convinced that the build quality of the TT is higher. From my experience of modern Audis and Toyotas, I'd bet on the opposite, in fact. I think the idea of "German quality" is several decades out of date.
I couldn't imagine spending 25k on a TT, but the GT86 is the first car that I've been even slightly tempted to buy new since I learned to drive.
And I'm not at all convinced that the build quality of the TT is higher. From my experience of modern Audis and Toyotas, I'd bet on the opposite, in fact. I think the idea of "German quality" is several decades out of date.
I couldn't imagine spending 25k on a TT, but the GT86 is the first car that I've been even slightly tempted to buy new since I learned to drive.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd May 22:59
kambites said:
The TT may not be a "Golf in a frock" but it does do a remarkably good impression of one to drive.
And I'm not at all convinced that the build quality of the TT is higher. From my experience of modern Audis and Toyotas, I'd bet on the opposite, in fact. I think the idea of "German quality" is several decades out of date.
I couldn't imagine spending 25k on a TT, but the GT86 is the first car that I've been even slightly tempted to buy new since I learned to drive.
Quality is subjective with no scientifiec unit of measure, however, I've not sat in a Toyota / Scoob product, which I thought felt like a quality offering. The plastics, switch gear action, damping, design, even the printed fonts all feel no better than average, IMO. My friend's new S4 however, feels like a very, very nice place to sit, with all controls being a joy to operate. Even another friend's hum-drum A6 TDI is leagues ahead of anything Japanese I've sat in (Lexus not included).And I'm not at all convinced that the build quality of the TT is higher. From my experience of modern Audis and Toyotas, I'd bet on the opposite, in fact. I think the idea of "German quality" is several decades out of date.
I couldn't imagine spending 25k on a TT, but the GT86 is the first car that I've been even slightly tempted to buy new since I learned to drive.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd May 22:59
25K on a TT? As I've already said, no I wouldn't either.
Ah, by build quality I thought you meant how well screwed together it is rather than the quality of the materials it's built from. Probably a fair comment then.
I think they just focus in different places - Toyota seem to focus on the moving bits underneath the skin (with the possible exception of the brakes
), where Audi focus more on the bits you can see.
I think they just focus in different places - Toyota seem to focus on the moving bits underneath the skin (with the possible exception of the brakes
), where Audi focus more on the bits you can see. 356Speedster said:
Quality is subjective with no scientifiec unit of measure,
No, that's perceived quality. Actual quality can be measured in all sorts of ways, such as warranty claims and time spent off the road. My gut feeling is that the Audi would score more highly on perceived quality (the subjective part that gets you to buy shiny thing) and the Toyota on actual quality (the objective measure of how often you need to visit Mr. Dealer for help).
Dont know about you guys.....but this new car is the only car under 30k that I can imagine buying brand new and looking forward to losing money on depreciation. RWD, 2+2, coupe, 35mpg, Boxer engine, playful handling, cheap to run, 5yr warranty. Next best thing since a FWD renaultsport car!!!
The mk2 TT may have less in common with the Golf than the previous model, but is still based on a common VAG platform shared across a number of cars. This enables it to be built more cheaply than if it were built on a bespoke sports car platform, at the expense of it being less good.
Percieved quality, premium product, whatever... At the end of the day it's what someone is prepared to spend on a car. I like the Toyotabaru... The look, the concept, I'm curious but I don't want one... No issues about quality, the badge etc... Just not where I'm at. I'd like a Cayman but with it's running costs the TTS is the happy medium for performance and running costs. As for the TT/Golf blah blah blah... Heard it all before...
I drive an old MX5. I wouldn't mind a bit more power. I used to drive a RX7 which had more than enough. I preferred the 2+2 coupe for practicality. The new Toyota or Subaru would suit me just fine. As soon as they are 2nd hand within my budget. Practical and fun. And built with that lovely Japanese desire to please. I hope they sell loads otherwise the 2nd hand value will take ages to drop!
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