RE: Gazoo shows 320hp GT 86
Discussion
otolith said:
I think the reception this car is getting may well mean that it's front wheel drive and turbocharging all the way from now on. I mean, just why bother trying to do any better? Tweak your three door hatch, turn up the boost, plenty of torque, job's a carrot.
The saving grace is, if the chassis is good, then engines can and will be changed. remember the develpment team retained standard subaru mounting points?otolith said:
I think the reception this car is getting may well mean that it's front wheel drive and turbocharging all the way from now on. I mean, just why bother trying to do any better? Tweak your three door hatch, turn up the boost, plenty of torque, job's a carrot.
As stated previously, I love the idea of this car, it's just that the final product doesn't seem to have really lived up to it's promise. Toyabaru could have literally set the affordable sportcars world on fire if they had made this just a little bit better, is it our fault they seem to have not quite got it right? I think in their effort to deliver a product with the aim that people would be able to tune it to their liking, they actually forgot to finish it properly. This is a very asiacentric view which doesn't really work in Europe, how many people are prepared to spend an extra £5k-£10 straight away on a brand new car to make it right? Idea = 10/10, execution = must try harder.
otolith said:
I think it's simply that what people expect for this amount of money can no longer be delivered within the fiscal and legislative contraints that manufacturers have to conform to.
Bingo.Toyobaru could have made this a 300hp flame spitting monster, but it'd cost a fair bit more than £25k, and you know that people would still b-tch about the price.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Personally I like the "asia-centric" view of an open source car for modders, but then I'm a modder.
otolith said:
I think it's simply that what people expect for this amount of money can no longer be delivered within the fiscal and legislative contraints that manufacturers have to conform to.
Quite possibly but a very decent hot hatch with more power\toys\capability can be had for less, so why exactly should a "back to basics" coupe cost more? Are hot hatches not subject to the same restraints? Compared to what else you can get for £25k I'd still say this is pretty poor value.Guvernator said:
otolith said:
I think it's simply that what people expect for this amount of money can no longer be delivered within the fiscal and legislative contraints that manufacturers have to conform to.
Quite possibly but a very decent hot hatch with more power\toys\capability can be had for less, so why exactly should a "back to basics" coupe cost more? Are hot hatches not subject to the same restraints? Compared to what else you can get for £25k I'd still say this is pretty poor value.To my knowledge they are not, ergo it would be churlish to keep on harping on about the price that toyota/subaru have to charge based on rules they have no control over.
Guvernator said:
Quite possibly but a very decent hot hatch with more power\toys\capability can be had for less, so why exactly should a "back to basics" coupe cost more? Are hot hatches not subject to the same restraints? Compared to what else you can get for £25k I'd still say this is pretty poor value.
Hot hatches are just factory modified shopping cars, and i'm a hot hatch man!all the R&D goes into producing a hatch, which is then subject to a suspension tweak, better brakes, seats and a bigger or more powerful engine.
the Toyobaru is ground-up sports car. nothing else sharing this floorplan.
Another week, another Toyobaru thread
I've arrived a bit late, having just read all 5 pages. I've also watched the EVO track video, read the Auto Express report and heard Gareth Jones' report. Now reading Jonathan Legard's feedback, it seems that the tide really is turning on these cars.
Build up & initial reports were positive, but it's not panning out. What has really surprised me tho', is the criticism that's being levelled at the chassis. That was the one thing I really thought would have saved the car above any power / styling criticisms. I guess not.
Seems like the themes are common: not quick enough, not sharp enough and too expensive in std trim. If this was the base car and it came in at under £20K, you could forgive such things, knowing that there was room for improvement, but knowing that the money required to resolve the last few tenths on the chassis to even bring it upto top class FWD stds and then the tuning required to give the engine some grunt & soul, you have say that £35K is looking like "sorted" Toyobaru money. And that's just silly.
I've arrived a bit late, having just read all 5 pages. I've also watched the EVO track video, read the Auto Express report and heard Gareth Jones' report. Now reading Jonathan Legard's feedback, it seems that the tide really is turning on these cars.
Build up & initial reports were positive, but it's not panning out. What has really surprised me tho', is the criticism that's being levelled at the chassis. That was the one thing I really thought would have saved the car above any power / styling criticisms. I guess not.
Seems like the themes are common: not quick enough, not sharp enough and too expensive in std trim. If this was the base car and it came in at under £20K, you could forgive such things, knowing that there was room for improvement, but knowing that the money required to resolve the last few tenths on the chassis to even bring it upto top class FWD stds and then the tuning required to give the engine some grunt & soul, you have say that £35K is looking like "sorted" Toyobaru money. And that's just silly.
Guvernator said:
Quite possibly but a very decent hot hatch with more power\toys\capability can be had for less, so why exactly should a "back to basics" coupe cost more? Are hot hatches not subject to the same restraints? Compared to what else you can get for £25k I'd still say this is pretty poor value.
You mean a hot hatch that can be sold profitably in large volumes for 16k?"I want a (relatively) low volume rear drive platform so I can have rear drive and fully independent suspension, a low centre of gravity, low weight and a body that isn't the same as next door's 1.4 poverty spec car. I want a naturally aspirated engine because I don't like turbo lag and I want a clean, linear power delivery. And I want it to be economical and cheap to tax or to have as a company car. But it has to be as cheap, as powerful and to have as much mid range torque as a tweaked version of a car which sells in massive numbers and has a turbocharged engine"
It's beyond me how people think that there is nine or ten grand's worth of extra value for money in a hot hatch over the entry level car. The pricing is a piss-take.
356Speedster said:
Another week, another Toyobaru thread
...
Seems like the themes are common: not quick enough, not sharp enough and too expensive in std trim. If this was the base car and it came in at under £20K, you could forgive such things, knowing that there was room for improvement, but knowing that the money required to resolve the last few tenths on the chassis to even bring it upto top class FWD stds and then the tuning required to give the engine some grunt & soul, you have say that £35K is looking like "sorted" Toyobaru money. And that's just silly.
But it's RWD! And going by the track test reviews - looks to employ that moderately low rear wheel power excellently. So I think based on fun alone it will contend in its price range....
Seems like the themes are common: not quick enough, not sharp enough and too expensive in std trim. If this was the base car and it came in at under £20K, you could forgive such things, knowing that there was room for improvement, but knowing that the money required to resolve the last few tenths on the chassis to even bring it upto top class FWD stds and then the tuning required to give the engine some grunt & soul, you have say that £35K is looking like "sorted" Toyobaru money. And that's just silly.
jimjim150 said:
But it's RWD! And going by the track test reviews - looks to employ that moderately low rear wheel power excellently. So I think based on fun alone it will contend in its price range.
And I think what this car shows is that relying on the old "RWD is all it needs" debate is not enough. From the reports coming thru', it does not employ that rear wheel power excellently at all, in fact it's quite the oposite. Here, watch this to the end and listen to the comments..... http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/282994/...
JonathanLegard said:
.............Perhaps the most encouraging aspect of the GT86's development is the fact that it represents a start. Tada acknowledges that it's not the end of this particular story by a long chalk and he refers to the car as an open-source project for tuners. Forced induction, a little suspension work and a more aggressive-sounding induction and exhaust would go a long way to making the GT86 what it always should have been.
So, yes, I'm disappointed but there's more than a glimmer of hope for this one yet.
....................
Aside from anything else, what a great post So, yes, I'm disappointed but there's more than a glimmer of hope for this one yet.
....................
Cheers
356Speedster said:
And I think what this car shows is that relying on the old "RWD is all it needs" debate is not enough. From the reports coming thru', it does not employ that rear wheel power excellently at all, in fact it's quite the oposite. Here, watch this to the end and listen to the comments.....
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/282994/...
Dagnabbit, now I want to stay with Renaultsport... When will I stop buying Renaults http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/282994/...
rhinochopig said:
Orginal seats will be 20-30kg each. Wheels will be heavy. Fitting carbon buckets will save 30-40kg + forged wheels will save another 10-15kg. If they've used plastic for the bonnet or boot - that'll save another 5-10kg. Lightweight battery - 2-5kg. And that's the easy stuff.
Add in delete sound deadening, ally belled discs, carbon prop, carbon roof, carbon panels, binned electric windows, thinner glass, etc. It's not hard.
Lol... All these automotive engineering experts... And how much would it costs with all the changes of to produce that way from the off? More forcussed no doubt but carbon prop, carbon roof, carbon panels amongst other things... Expensive!!! They'll be another set of posts saying you might as well buy a Cayman/Boxster or whatever. Is there a car out there already in that spec for £25k? Eh no... carbon is labour intensive and would just ramp up the cost.Add in delete sound deadening, ally belled discs, carbon prop, carbon roof, carbon panels, binned electric windows, thinner glass, etc. It's not hard.
Toyota set out to build a lightweight car with just enough power to have a little fun... So what it might get destroyed by a Megan Cup... What's the problem? As long as you are having fun...
Whatever manufactures make, it's not enough for some. Nissan GTR, £70k wtf for a Datsun. New Lambo, jeez it's not Lambo enough. Jag F-Type, it should be cheaper, it's the wrong name, they built the wrong car blah blah... And on we go. These threads are such comedies... A few talk sense and then get shot down by people pulling figures, prices out of thin air. Very entertaining.
The whingers are only slagging it off cos they're not good enough drivers to exploit the massive fun to be had from this car.The only way they can drive quickly is by having a turbo or loads of power, then only in a straight line.Discuss.Those who have driven this car, and have good driving skills, have commented that you need to "get" this car before you understand it and learn to love it.A quick drive won't do this.So many of you are missing the whole point.This car will appeal to a great many people,it starts off with a good price and great value/spec for a new car. It has a 5 year warranty, low co2,low RFL,decent economy, low BIK for company car drivers and will be cheap to run and own in general.On top of this it will be available on a great finance rate with good residuals. The whole point of the thing is that for those who like their cars a bit more spicy, the aftermarket have been given the official green light to go to town on this car,meaning that you can have it exactly how you want it,depending upon what you want.Happy days!!!No one else gives you this sort of basis to create a usable sports car that suits you 100%. I can see many of these being kept and loved for many years,just like a bespoke pair of shoes.
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