RE: The £17K Ferrari? I bought it...

[Guvernator]

culpz said:

You're absolutely right. However, i think you've kinda missed the point with the whole thread.

It's all about taking the plunge. Buying a car with such a badge as Ferrari for such a relatively small amount of cash is something which appears to be frowned upon. This thread builds up the hope that there are real bargains and opportunities out there that people just don't commit to in fear of it costing them a fortune.

OP did just that and it turned out to be a good bet. Obviously, it doesn't always go this way but that's just the gamble you take. It appears OP has enjoyed and used the car as he should and did not just buy it to make a profit. But, the fact that he most likely will do, is a good enough reason to prove the general consensus wrong.

No I've not missed the point at all but perhaps you'e missed mine? You're right that what the OP did was great and a brilliant PH story BUT everything that's good about it is no longer possible. Even the dodgiest, crappiest examples of Ferrari's are climbing into the stratosphere now so it's no longer possible to repeat what the OP has done, great for the OP, not so great for everyone else who might want to try the same thing.

Also the post above saying you should have bought one a few years ago, perhaps the timing wasn't right, perhaps someone had been saving up like mad for years to afford a £35k one and now those are all out of reach. Unless you've got a crystal ball or a time machine you can't predict that so that's a bit of a nonsense statement to be honest. Fine for the few hundred people who got lucky and benefited from it but for everyone else they've been priced out of reach so I'll stick to my guns and repeat my earlier statement, the commoditization and rapid appreciation of these types of cars has done more harm then good for people who actually enjoy cars.

[culpz]

Guvernator said:

No I've not missed the point at all but perhaps you'e missed mine? You're right that what the OP did was great and a brilliant PH story BUT everything that's good about it is no longer possible. Even the dodgiest, crappiest examples of Ferrari's are climbing into the stratosphere now so it's no longer possible to repeat what the OP has done, great for the OP, not so great for everyone else who might want to try the same thing.

With all due respect, you don't seem to be making a point. You now just appear to be going on a rant about prices of such cars going up in value, which is inevitable really. I'm just trying to understand what your issue is here. You're just coming across as very sour, that's all.

Are you saying that a high-mileage Ferrari won't appear for similar money at some point? Not all Ferrari's appreciate. There very well may be a dip in certain models and then the lower-end ones will fall even further from the tree into cheaper territory.

I also refer you to your first point:

Guvernator said:

Not sure why everyone is obsessing over the value of the car? I thought this was pistonheads, not investors weekly and while I'm sure the OP is happy that his car has gone up in value, the turning of these cars into assets really helps no one except those who aren't really interested in cars in the first place.

Just seems fairly hypocritical that you would say that as the only person i can see obsessing over the price of the car is, in fact, you.

Making a profit on a car is great. Why is someone instantly not an enthusiast because they've made some money off selling a car in comparison to what they bought it for? Cars are a depreciating asset, for the most part, so surely it's nice to get something back for it?

I do agree with you to a point. These investors that pick up cars purely for profit is a bit grim to watch. Again, there's not much you can do about it though. Don't automatically assume that the individuals on here commenting on OP selling it on for a profit aren't enthusiasts and that that's all they care about. It's just not the case.

Edited by culpz on Tuesday 28th March 13:45

[Jimmy Recard]

TheLordJohn said:

Well that's bullst. If a petrol head really wanted one, he could have had one a few years ago for £35k.
I'm not one to overly care about appreciation or whatever, but if a car lifts out of your budget, you simply have to look elsewhere.
Or have the courage of your conviction to buy it when you think they're low, like the OP did.

There are then people who could gather £40k for one now but didn't have to pennies to rub together when they were less than that.

It's not really right or wrong, fair or unfair. Just bad timing for anyone who hasn't got one!

[Dave Hedgehog]

Jimmy Recard said:

TheLordJohn said:

Well that's bullst. If a petrol head really wanted one, he could have had one a few years ago for £35k.
I'm not one to overly care about appreciation or whatever, but if a car lifts out of your budget, you simply have to look elsewhere.
Or have the courage of your conviction to buy it when you think they're low, like the OP did.

There are then people who could gather £40k for one now but didn't have to pennies to rub together when they were less than that.

It's not really right or wrong, fair or unfair. Just bad timing for anyone who hasn't got one!

like those of us who bought a house for 10k in the 80s

[Guvernator]

culpz said:

Just seems fairly hypocritical that you would say that as the only person i can see obsessing over the price of the car is, in fact, you.

Making a profit on a car is great. Why is someone instantly not an enthusiast because they've made some money off selling a car in comparison to what they bought it for? Cars are a depreciating asset, for the most part, so surely it's nice to get something back for it?

I do agree with you to a point. These investors that pick up cars purely for profit is a bit grim to watch. Again, there's not much you can do about it though. Don't automatically assume that the individuals on here commenting on OP selling it on for a profit aren't enthusiasts and that that's all they care about. It's just not the case.

Edited by culpz on Tuesday 28th March 13:45

The last page has at least 6 posts mentioning the value of the car. Didn't say it was bad for people to make a profit, especially someone who clearly took a gamble and probably wasn't buying the car expecting to make a profit on it. I just think far too much of the talk around these cars seems to now centre on how much they are worth which is a shame IMO. I also don't think these price rises were inevitable at all but rather driven by external market forces which shouldn't really have much bearing on car prices.

I'd far rather read about someone spannering it themselves and then taking it out for a good thrashing which is what this thread started out as. E30 M3's, Integrale's and Ferrari's etc, all cars designed to be driven and enjoyed and yet 8/10, all people can talk about now is how much they are worth. Does the fact that an E30 M3 Evo is now £60k+ and out of reach of most enthusiasts make the car better or worse?

Edited by Guvernator on Tuesday 28th March 14:12

[culpz]

Guvernator said:

The last page has at least 6 posts mentioning the value of the car. Didn't say it was bad for people to make a profit, especially someone who clearly took a gamble and probably wasn't buying the car expecting to make a profit on it. I just think far too much of the talk around these cars seems to now centre on how much they are worth which is a shame IMO. I also don't think these price rises were inevitable at all but rather driven by external market forces which shouldn't really have much bearing on car prices.

I'd far rather read about someone spannering it themselves and then taking it out for a good thrashing which is what this thread started out as. E30 M3's, Integrale's and Ferrari's etc, all cars designed to be driven and enjoyed and yet 8/10, all people can talk about now is how much they are worth. Does the fact that an E30 M3 Evo is now £60k+ and out of reach of most enthusiasts make the car better or worse?

Edited by Guvernator on Tuesday 28th March 14:12

It has has a another 6 of the content that you wanted though.

Price is a big part of this, would you believe. You'd me bad to disagree, so, of course, the subject is going to be debated in some length. Don't assume that's all those people care about.

Obviously, purchasing a 17k Ferrari raises more questions than it answers. Taking that on board, maybe more people can make similar gambles with cars and lead by example. OP has done that and for all the right reasons and not just for profit. The fact that he, no doubt, will do here is simply a bonus.

I'd suggest that you go and find another thread on here with exactly the content you're looking for. Regardless, there will be talk on the money side of it. If you can't understand that, maybe this forum, or even cars in general, are not for you.

[Guvernator]

culpz said:

It has has a another 6 of the content that you wanted though.

Price is a big part of this, would you believe. You'd me bad to disagree, so, of course, the subject is going to be debated in some length. Don't assume that's all those people care about.

Obviously, purchasing a 17k Ferrari raises more questions than it answers. Taking that on board, maybe more people can make similar gambles with cars and lead by example. OP has done that and for all the right reasons and not just for profit. The fact that he, no doubt, will do here is simply a bonus.

I'd suggest that you go and find another thread on here with exactly the content you're looking for. Regardless, there will be talk on the money side of it. If you can't understand that, maybe this forum, or even cars in general, are not for you.

I don't mind talk about money, it's a part of owning a car but when almost every thread about modern classics almost invariably devolves into talk about values, it starts to get a bit annoying, probably because I can't really understand the fascination people have with how much money someone else has made on a car or anything else. I shouldn't be surprised though, unfortunately it seems to be a modern obsession that infects almost everything these days.

It's just a pet peeve of mine, not sure why you feel the need to get passive aggressive about it and suggest I go elsewhere but then that also seems to be another modern ailment.

[clubsport]

This has appeared at an upcoming car auction next month;

http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...

Perfect for anybody who feels they may have missed out?...... It won't be me!

[Rawwr]

clubsport said:

This has appeared at an upcoming car auction next month;

http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...

Perfect for anybody who feels they may have missed out?...... It won't be me!

Such a beautiful shape. Is that LM blue?

[Davey S2]

Perfect colour combo.

My old man had a silver on black car. Great as a long distance GT but feels a big, heavy car and the build quality left a few question marks. V12 is fantastic though.

[culpz]

Guvernator said:

It's just a pet peeve of mine, not sure why you feel the need to get passive aggressive about it and suggest I go elsewhere but then that also seems to be another modern ailment.

That's because i don't and i'm not. My point was, if you don't like what you're reading then don't continue to do so. No-one's forcing you to be on here and agree/like everything that is put on here. Simple really.

People forget that this is a forum. You have a right to say what you are doing and have your opinion. You're just coming across as as a bit sour, that's all.

[Guvernator]

culpz said:

That's because i don't and i'm not. My point was, if you don't like what you're reading then don't continue to do so. No-one's forcing you to be on here and agree/like everything that is put on here. Simple really.

People forget that this is a forum. You have a right to say what you are doing and have your opinion. You're just coming across as as a bit sour, that's all.

Yep you've hit the nail on the head, I'm sour but not because I didn't buy a Ferrari for £17k and then have a bunch of strangers on a forum speculate about how much money I must have made on it.

I'm sour because my passion for special cars from the era I grew up in seems to have been overtaken by speculators, amateur traders and people talking about other peoples money. PH articles on cars from this era always end up talking about values, people on interesting threads about cars from that era talk about values, it's become the big topic when it's something that only a very small people are lucky enough to benefit from, for the rest, inflated car values are actually hugely counter productive as it means more and more cars end up in "collections" rather than in the hands of enthusiasts so I really don't understand why people seem to almost relish the prices of these cars rising into the stratosphere.

Can you understand that for someone whose interest in these cars goes beyond how much they are worth, it might get a bit boring and frustrating when that's all anyone seems to want to talk about on a forum allegedly populated by car enthusiasts? If I wanted to read about asset valuations I'd subscribe to money week but I come here to read about CARS.

[CaptainSensib1e]

Guvernator said:

Yep you've hit the nail on the head, I'm sour but not because I didn't buy a Ferrari for £17k and then have a bunch of strangers on a forum speculate about how much money I must have made on it.

I'm sour because my passion for special cars from the era I grew up in seems to have been overtaken by speculators, amateur traders and people talking about other peoples money. PH articles on cars from this era always end up talking about values, people on interesting threads about cars from that era talk about values, it's become the big topic when it's something that only a very small people are lucky enough to benefit from, for the rest, inflated car values are actually hugely counter productive as it means more and more cars end up in "collections" rather than in the hands of enthusiasts so I really don't understand why people seem to almost relish the prices of these cars rising into the stratosphere.

Can you understand that for someone whose interest in these cars goes beyond how much they are worth, it might get a bit boring and frustrating when that's all anyone seems to want to talk about on a forum allegedly populated by car enthusiasts? If I wanted to read about asset valuations I'd subscribe to money week but I come here to read about CARS.

Surely, that's been the case for every generation of cars though? Car is launched, price depreciates for a few years, then the car becomes scare enough that prices start to rise again. It's not a unique problem to cars of your era.

I'm sure there are cars you can buy for £17k today, that will be worth a damn site more in a few years. It's one hell of a gamble though, like buying a £17k Ferrari. I certainly don't have the balls to do it!

[boyse7en]

Guvernator said:

culpz said:

That's because i don't and i'm not. My point was, if you don't like what you're reading then don't continue to do so. No-one's forcing you to be on here and agree/like everything that is put on here. Simple really.

People forget that this is a forum. You have a right to say what you are doing and have your opinion. You're just coming across as as a bit sour, that's all.

Yep you've hit the nail on the head, I'm sour but not because I didn't buy a Ferrari for £17k and then have a bunch of strangers on a forum speculate about how much money I must have made on it.

I'm sour because my passion for special cars from the era I grew up in seems to have been overtaken by speculators, amateur traders and people talking about other peoples money. PH articles on cars from this era always end up talking about values, people on interesting threads about cars from that era talk about values, it's become the big topic when it's something that only a very small people are lucky enough to benefit from, for the rest, inflated car values are actually hugely counter productive as it means more and more cars end up in "collections" rather than in the hands of enthusiasts so I really don't understand why people seem to almost relish the prices of these cars rising into the stratosphere.

Can you understand that for someone whose interest in these cars goes beyond how much they are worth, it might get a bit boring and frustrating when that's all anyone seems to want to talk about on a forum allegedly populated by car enthusiasts? If I wanted to read about asset valuations I'd subscribe to money week but I come here to read about CARS.

I get what you are on about.

I'm interested in the "journey" of owning a cheap Ferrari on a driving, maintaining and enjoying basis. And that what the majority of this thread was about until more recently, when many of the posts seem to just be people congratulating the OP on making £70k profit. No interest in the car, just on how much money it has made.

[Guvernator]

CaptainSensib1e said:

Surely, that's been the case for every generation of cars though? Car is launched, price depreciates for a few years, then the car becomes scare enough that prices start to rise again. It's not a unique problem to cars of your era.

I'm sure there are cars you can buy for £17k today, that will be worth a damn site more in a few years. It's one hell of a gamble though, like buying a £17k Ferrari. I certainly don't have the balls to do it!

Probably although I have little interest in cars from this era as

1) They weren't a part of my formative years
2) They have lost a lot of the interaction, rawness and even looks that make cars from the 80/90's appealing to me.

Besides the point is I don't buy cars to earn money, I have a job for that. I buy them to either get me from A to B or for enjoyment so the market value of the car is less important to me than the value I personally place on how enjoyable it is to own\drive.

Time was it used to be all about how much bang you could get for your buck, taking a punt on a £17k Ferrari which might ruin you or it might be the best car you ever bought in terms of the enjoyment and memories it gives you is exactly what PH is about.
Unfortunately that seems to have fallen by the wayside in the last few years and threads like this all seem to end up being about how much money a car is worth. I wish this car bubble would hurry up and burst so that we can all get back to talking about something a bit more interesting instead.

[V8RX7]

Guvernator said:

Not sure why everyone is obsessing over the value of the car? I thought this was pistonheads, not investors weekly

For the last few years they appear to be one and the same.

I went to the Retro car show and found it a refreshing change as it was full of enthusiasts rather than valeters / investors / spec nerds.

[Guvernator]

Phew, I was beginning to feel like the unpopular kid at school but some people at least seem to get what I'm on about. Even the last few articles I've read on PH have started doing it. The first few paragraphs of a YKYWT feature or similar article invariably end up mentioning future values.

Even new cars are getting in on the act, Porsche are a classic example of a company who make some brilliant drivers cars, only for them to be more about how much they are worth then how they drive.

It happened with house prices a few years where everyone and their dog became a property expert all of a sudden and all they'd talk about is how much their house was worth rather then whether they actually enjoyed living in it, now we have it with cars. Sorry but I'm just getting a bit sick of constantly hearing about money and asset values on a car forum.

[Swampy1982]

But seriously tho.. . What happened to the car?

[Guvernator]

Swampy1982 said:

But seriously tho.. . What happened to the car?

It's gone up in value

[Yipper]

Funnily enough, know someone who bought a 1970s Ferrari for ~£17k in 2014 (imported from USA). Took months of paperwork to get it in the country, and it spent ~90% of the first two years in the garage with neverending repairs. But he finally cracked the problems with perseverance and stopped them domino-ing. The car is probably now worth ~£50k and he drives it most weekends with few issues. Moral of the story -- yes, you can buy and drive a cheap Ferrari, but you ideally need good garage skills, and tenacity.