RE: Dany Bahar suspended

[M@1975]

Hitch78 said:

The R+D and tooling of the Elise must have been paid by now so they should strip them down to CS spec and sell them at 20k a pop - they'd shift a few hundred a year for the next ten years which would give cashflow at least.

So true, they really should have focussed on the "driver" market, yes I know there is a load of back and forward about what that market is on this thread but if they decided that lightweight enjoyable cheap motoring was a good market, which it evidently is thanks to the Toybaru GT86/BRZ, then they could have started making some inroads, chasing Porsche was a hiding to nothing from the start.

[cris9964]

Ex Boy Racer said:

crocodile tears said:

The Crack Fox said:

Hitch78 said:

robinessex said:

1. I haven't a clue what's going on
2. Had a Lotus Europa once
3. LOTUS
4. Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious
5. That's the cars and the Company

6. Tomato
7. Quantum physics
8. Super Ted
9. Boobies
10.+ Other random numbered comments

11. Dany Bahr's builder is suing him over unpaid bills for the construction of a golden statue of himself on the roof of Hethel that rotates to follow the sun.
12. In the Bahar household, Wednesday is named 'Bahar-day'.
13. Dany Bahar was once the President of Fiat, Ferrari and FYR Macedonia.
14. I bet the employees are sick to death of the constant unwanted press attention and speculation.
14. I'd buy an Evora right now if I had the money.
15. I'm not good with numbers. Or facts.

16. A dog has had its day.
17. Fish fingers and duracell batteries.
18. I met a golden dragon in space called Fred.
19. Dreams can come true.
20. I can count to potato.

21. you can call cornflakes roast beef but you still won't have them for sunday lunch
22. Marketing bullst does not rule the world
23. the Lotus employee who will eventually do best out of all this is Mr D.B.
24. How dumb must Malaysian businessmen be?
25. It's not really funny, is it?

26. Monkey Tennis

[BrassMan]

sisu said:

What I don't get is how a £92K builders renovation bill on a rental property of an employee is now the reason that Lotus failed? Now everyone is saying "Oh that Dany Bahar shagged the company..." and since 2009 everyone has been blowin smoke up his arse and the prototypes they launched back in 2010.
This was years in the coming and like Saab there are alot of enthusiasts and history, but it has been bleeding money for years.
Should they have been heading for a carbon fibre tub technology rather than a tarted up MR2 that Toyota couldn't get their old CEOs to give it the Bukkake sign off. But they are behind the 8 ball now with a Toyota Camry V6 and the prototype Esprit in the ditch.

So they've called in the recievers?
Or is this just more wishful thinking?

[Tuna]

Frimley111R said:

V8 FOU said:

Chapman must be spinning in his grave.

Jesus H Christ

No, be fair. This is a discussion on Lotus. It is a legal requirement that all such discussions include the phrase "Chapman must be spinning in his grave".

[limpsfield]

DanS said:

It's going to take very deep pockets to save it now, I suspect administrators will sell the consultancy and wind up the car maker. It's what happens when you put everything on red and lose.

Sadly I agree with you and I think that seems to be getting ever closer.

I think Lotus will be back - look at the financial turmoil of Aston martin; Maserati etc. over past decades. But it does seem that things will get worse before they get better.

[Tuna]

otolith said:

Tuna said:

I'm not resigned at all. I recognise that people who self identify as 'drivers' tend to be people who can't afford the car they aspire to. Being a 'driver' is usually a justification for driving round a ratty old classic, or owning a car that is just that little bit inconvenient for daily use. The other group are successful enough to buy a car because they want to enjoy it.

Well that's clearly bks, given that all of the people driving round in used Elises could have had a used Porsche for the same money.

If you want a Porsche, why don't you just buy one?

Um, but on the whole they do. You don't sell 30 thousand cars a year by not selling shedloads on the second hand market. For every one used Elise sold second hand, there are 10 to 20 used Porsches.

And when they have the "why did you buy it?" discussion in the pub, the Porsche owners will say "it's a great car", not "it's a driver's car". I am no fan at all of Porsches, but I'm happy to recognise that it's a mainstream success and that's what Lotus needs to be, not a niche player that depends on a small and fickle audience.

[wormburner]

Is there any informed word on what he's actually accused of doing?

My guesses (and they're just guesses):

• Some crossed-the-line expenses games with that house he's had improved (on the company coin?)
• Telling the new bosses in Malaysia fibs about the degree to which the new cars are coming along / how much money they've spent on them
• Making some clandestine arrangements for the sale of the company that will deliver his 5% 'commission' and perhaps more, but which aren't in the best interests of the company.

[seefarr]

Tuna said:

Frimley111R said:

V8 FOU said:

Chapman must be spinning in his grave.

Jesus H Christ

No, be fair. This is a discussion on Lotus. It is a legal requirement that all such discussions include the phrase "Chapman must be spinning in his grave".

That's another great idea for a t-shirt.

[otolith]

Tuna said:

And when they have the "why did you buy it?" discussion in the pub, the Porsche owners will say "it's a great car", not "it's a driver's car". I am no fan at all of Porsches, but I'm happy to recognise that it's a mainstream success and that's what Lotus needs to be, not a niche player that depends on a small and fickle audience.

Bluntly, why should anyone care? We are oversupplied with mainstream cars. How will the world be a better place for Lotus making more of what you can already buy from Porsche, BMW, Audi or Mercedes?

It is one thing to believe that the only way (for instance) a real ale brewer can survive is to become a purveyor of mass market nitrokeg beverages, it's quite another to think it a cause for celebration.

[Yeloperil]

Didn't I read somewhere that during his time at Hethel Mr Bahar has burned through 400 million. A forensic examination of the books has been conducted so perhaps the two could be in some way connected?

[iSore]

limpsfield said:

I think Lotus will be back - look at the financial turmoil of Aston martin; Maserati etc. over past decades.

Yes, but Aston and Maserati are big name big money brands that can be raped for all they're worth. Lotus? I can't remember when or where I last saw a Lotus showroom. It might have been 1996.

[GingerNinja]

otolith said:

Bluntly, why should anyone care? We are oversupplied with mainstream cars. How will the world be a better place for Lotus making more of what you can already buy from Porsche, BMW, Audi or Mercedes?

It is one thing to believe that the only way (for instance) a real ale brewer can survive is to become a purveyor of mass market nitrokeg beverages, it's quite another to think it a cause for celebration.

Because as Lotus has regularly lost money while being a purveyor of low volume niche products, perhaps the thinking is if they went mainstream they might increase sales volumes, appeal to a wider audience with bigger pockets and start to make some money?

Just sayin'

[otolith]

GingerNinja said:

otolith said:

Bluntly, why should anyone care? We are oversupplied with mainstream cars. How will the world be a better place for Lotus making more of what you can already buy from Porsche, BMW, Audi or Mercedes?

It is one thing to believe that the only way (for instance) a real ale brewer can survive is to become a purveyor of mass market nitrokeg beverages, it's quite another to think it a cause for celebration.

Because as Lotus has regularly lost money while being a purveyor of low volume niche products, perhaps the thinking is if they went mainstream they might increase sales volumes, appeal to a wider audience with bigger pockets and start to make some money?

Just sayin'

Sure. But why should anyone (who doesn't work for them) care?

[soulfood9]

As I think I have mentioned previously elsewhere, Bahar is generally credited as being the guy who got Red Bull into F1. He's a marketing guy, and made enough money from it to stop being Turkish and start being Swiss. His arrival at Ferrari as Head of the Brand and Licensing Team coincided with a big clear out of that team in Maranello but he actually did very little while there other than try to reinforce the links between the GT (road) cars and the Ferrari F1 team. Which led to some really embarrassing product launch campaigns (California especially!). He's not CEO material and certainly not some kind of Goldenballs automotive wizard.

[900T-R]

otolith said:

Bluntly, why should anyone care? We are oversupplied with mainstream cars. How will the world be a better place for Lotus making more of what you can already buy from Porsche, BMW, Audi or Mercedes?

It is one thing to believe that the only way (for instance) a real ale brewer can survive is to become a purveyor of mass market nitrokeg beverages, it's quite another to think it a cause for celebration.

This. Yes, Porsche is selling 100,000 vehicles (over half of which are platform-shared SUVs and big saloons) - how is that in anyway relevant to a manufacturer that would just about accommodate a volume of 5,000 per annum? If anything, it would leave more room for the more focused product.

In fact, the worst thing that can happen to small, artisanal businesses is to be overrun with orders from a mainstream audience joining some sort of fashion bandwagon while not fully understanding what they're buying into - look what happened to TVR...

Worldwide, there are more than enough motorists that want (and can afford) driver-focused cars for Lotus and a raft of other small, specialist manufacturers to thrive. In common with just about any other UK purveyor of that particular genre in recent history, I perceive their main problems to be a) over-reliance on the UK market with the UK economy itself being over-reliant on the more volatile segments of the financial services industry as a driver of growth/wealth creation, and b) an apparent lack of interest in the intricacies of production engineering at the level that we're used to in continental Europe for instance (not just from big industrial conglomerates, but also from small and intermediate engineering businesses).

If operations like Lotus are to thrive, as a society I'd start with better appreciation and career prospects for engineers, and maybe a bit less for bankers and marketeers...

[jackal]

otolith said:

I'll take a punt at "as opposed to people who buy a car because they've been told it's an important part of their luxury lifestyle".

I think the most depressing thing about the whole debacle is the extent to which people are resigned to the idea that appealing to the lowest common denominator and selling to the ignorant are the only possible way to run a succesful car company.

There are only so many Informtaion Technlogy 'aspergo-mongs' out there who spend their lives jacking off over K&N air filters, talking about rollsteer stifness and studying Harris's twitter feed 24/7. Besides, they already all have elises in any case.

As someone mentioned, the S, Exige V6 and Evora are all great cars. But they are playing to an audience of around 9 people. Lotus can't make cars like that anymore and hope to survive. The 1980's and 90's are long gone and the world has changed. You either do an 'Ariel cars' or you do an 'Aston Martin', you can't do something inbetween.

[.blue]

900T-R said:

If operations like Lotus are to thrive, as a society I'd start with better appreciation and career prospects for engineers, and maybe a bit less for bankers and marketeers...

What do you mean by better career prospects for engineers? A lot of bankers are engineerings by education.

[GarryA]

Aspergo-mongs

[900T-R]

.blue said:

A lot of bankers are engineerings by education.

Which says a lot by itself, doesn't it?

[M@1975]

PH need to get an Aspergo-Mong Tshirt made up, if they do I'm buying it for my Exige obsessed mate. LOL