RE: PH Heroes: VW Golf Rallye

[4Q]

I ran a car identical to yours for a week in the summer of 1990, it was a brand new just registered VW demonstrator I'd got in for a customer when I was working at a vw dealer. It wasn't a common colour so it might be the same one?

[PorkInsider]

As rare as they are (there were only 70 genuine 'SE' UK cars IIRC) I had one too and that one was also in graphite grey. Mine was a 1991 'H' reg which I bought in 2000 and sold in 2004.

I wish I'd kept it, along with the MK4 R32 which replaced it.

I believe that 'mine' is still around - I sold it to the guy who runs golfgti.co.uk who I think still owns it.

[M5 London]

4Q said:

I ran a car identical to yours for a week in the summer of 1990, it was a brand new just registered VW demonstrator I'd got in for a customer when I was working at a vw dealer. It wasn't a common colour so it might be the same one?

Wow that would be crazy !

Can I ask which dealership you were at back then ?

I have some tingle of a memory that the car was supplied from a London UK dealer in the Battersea area.....but I could be wrong.

I also have a similar distant memory of the first owner being the chairman of Club GTi....again just from memory.

[SuperchargedVR6]

aka_kerrly said:

Gridl0k said:

DanDC5 said:

I saw one of these yesterday. They look cool, just always surprises me how slow they are. Be better with a Supercharged VR6 lump under the bonnet.

Won't argue with that, my supercharged VR6 adds a certain something to the MK2.

You do need to remember that in 1989 160hp was still considered a fair amount of power.

At the same time for example:

Lancia Integrale HF turbo had between 128>197hp depending on model
BMW M3 197
Audi UR Quattro 197

I do agree however that a VR6 with a supercharger is a fine choice for a rallye but in the context of what was available at the time i'd rather have seen the 2.0 16v G60 with 200+hp as standard.

VR6 Turbo. The Superchargers for that engine are utter crap. A friend VR6 Turboed his Rallye years ago, along with a rather tasty Gemini 6 speed 02A box (sadly no longer available) and a syncro bell housing, which was very hard to source. It does make for a great conversion and the pops, bangs & blow off valve noises sit well with the car's Rallying heritage.

As for the standard car.....bland. The engine makes a unique Kirby hoover sucking noise, but other than that, not much appeals.

[MDMA .]

always wanted a Rallye. could never find a nice one though. last decent one was a pearl grey one ( nice standard show car ) a few years ago. think I had my RS2 at the time and the step down in power was a bit too much. would still have one though. not the best car ever made but a good looking one ( IMO ). set of 16" RS's and a little drop in height is all that is needed

this looks a decent one for sale -
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C868814

[4Q]

M5 London said:

Wow that would be crazy !

Can I ask which dealership you were at back then ?

I have some tingle of a memory that the car was supplied from a London UK dealer in the Battersea area.....but I could be wrong.

I also have a similar distant memory of the first owner being the chairman of Club GTi....again just from memory.

I was working at Merlin in Chesterfield, it wasn't registered by us, we borrowed it from VAG in Milton Keynes, although the no plate is Worcestershire. It may not be the same car but as soon as I saw the pic it just looked familiar, even the reg no. As someone said earlier, there are only about 70 U.K. cars and not many in your colour.

[M5 London]

4Q said:

I was working at Merlin in Chesterfield, it wasn't registered by us, we borrowed it from VAG in Milton Keynes, although the no plate is Worcestershire. It may not be the same car but as soon as I saw the pic it just looked familiar, even the reg no. As someone said earlier, there are only about 70 U.K. cars and not many in your colour.

Thanks for the information !

At some point I will really start digging into the car's history.

[Meridius]

One of these up for sale at the moment but with a turbo 2.0 16v in it.

Reason I resurrect this old thread is because the ad mentions the Rallye's homologation for WRC and late rule changes meaning competitors were all using 2.0l turbo engines by the time the championships started and so the Rallye was essentially outdated and not competitive at all.

Cant really find any information to back that up about late rule changes etc or much even on development for rallying so wondering if anyone else knew details? Or some good material on it?

Right after the Rallye, VW started developing that Golf A59 prototype on the mk3 chassis which was an AWD turbo 2.0 16v which I suppose could backup that VW kind of got caught out and just had to stick with the G60 engine.

[Benni]

For insider info, maybe pop into the german Rallye Golf Forum ?
https://www.rallye-golf.info/index.php?board-list/

[PorkInsider]

Meridius said:

One of these up for sale at the moment but with a turbo 2.0 16v in it.

Reason I resurrect this old thread is because the ad mentions the Rallye's homologation for WRC and late rule changes meaning competitors were all using 2.0l turbo engines by the time the championships started and so the Rallye was essentially outdated and not competitive at all.

Cant really find any information to back that up about late rule changes etc or much even on development for rallying so wondering if anyone else knew details? Or some good material on it?

Right after the Rallye, VW started developing that Golf A59 prototype on the mk3 chassis which was an AWD turbo 2.0 16v which I suppose could backup that VW kind of got caught out and just had to stick with the G60 engine.

When the Rallye was conceived, there was an equivalence factor in use for forced induction engines (capacity x 1.7) which meant the Rallye engine (code 1H) had to be 1763cc rather than the 1781cc of the other VW engines at the time - including the Corrado and G60 GTI - to keep below the 3000cc limit.

Not sure how much help that is but it does mean that it was built to different regulations than a 2.0 turbo would have been.

[Leins]

PorkInsider said:

When the Rallye was conceived, there was an equivalence factor in use for forced induction engines (capacity x 1.7) which meant the Rallye engine (code 1H) had to be 1763cc rather than the 1781cc of the other VW engines at the time - including the Corrado and G60 GTI - to keep below the 3000cc limit.

Not sure how much help that is but it does mean that it was built to different regulations than a 2.0 turbo would have been.

Very interesting, never knew they ran a different capacity G60 in the other applications

Just checked and it seems the Limited ran the larger capacity too, although with a 16v head. Must never have been homologated, unless under some sort of “Evolution” rule?

[PorkInsider]

Leins said:

Very interesting, never knew they ran a different capacity G60 in the other applications

Just checked and it seems the Limited ran the larger capacity too, although with a 16v head. Must never have been homologated, unless under some sort of “Evolution” rule?

The other 8v G60s used the same engine (essentially) as the GTIs, other than the charger being added.

The 1H engine in the Rallye has quite a few differences - I was considering changing the head gasket on mine at one point and the parts needed were different numbers to those for the other G60s.

I believe, but could be wrong, that among the differences were: smaller cylinder bore, different cylinder head, bigger head bolts, front mount intercooler (behind radiator rather than behind bumper/in-wing), different cam.

I think I still have a genuine Rallye cam somewhere in the garage actually.

The Limited wasn't built for any sort of homologation as far as I'm aware - not raced/rallied, was it?

Off topic but if you ever listen to 'Collecting Cars' podcasts with Chris Harris, there's one where he's talking to, I think, Dickie Meaden about their old days as journalists on car launches and one of the anecdotes was around an 'incident' with a Limited borrowed for an article. It would have been new at the time.

[Leins]

PorkInsider said:

Leins said:

Very interesting, never knew they ran a different capacity G60 in the other applications

Just checked and it seems the Limited ran the larger capacity too, although with a 16v head. Must never have been homologated, unless under some sort of “Evolution” rule?

The other 8v G60s used the same engine (essentially) as the GTIs, other than the charger being added.

The 1H engine in the Rallye has quite a few differences - I was considering changing the head gasket on mine at one point and the parts needed were different numbers to those for the other G60s.

I believe, but could be wrong, that among the differences were: smaller cylinder bore, different cylinder head, bigger head bolts, front mount intercooler (behind radiator rather than behind bumper/in-wing), different cam.

I think I still have a genuine Rallye cam somewhere in the garage actually.

The Limited wasn't built for any sort of homologation as far as I'm aware - not raced/rallied, was it?

Off topic but if you ever listen to 'Collecting Cars' podcasts with Chris Harris, there's one where he's talking to, I think, Dickie Meaden about their old days as journalists on car launches and one of the anecdotes was around an 'incident' with a Limited borrowed for an article. It would have been new at the time.

Thanks for the info, everyday is a school day, even at the weekends!

I have a couple of colleagues who own Rallyes, but neither have the original engines in them, both now running high-boost Audi 1.8Ts. I’d always thought they could be returned to a more standard state by sourcing another G60 out of a crashed Corrado, or even a Passat if any still exist, but it seems that wouldn’t be quite correct either. I wonder what happened these 1H motors, unless quite a few were swapped out due to blowing up

I’d love to know a bit more about why VW decided to build the Limited, as it seems it might just have been a showcase piece. The numbers were so small, and I don’t believe the 16v G60 motor was used in any other applications. Must try and route out a period review of it and see if there’s any further background to it

Those Harris podcasts are a good listen. I’m hoping he gets the likes of Steve Sutcliffe, Colin Goodwin and John Barker on soon

[s m]

PorkInsider said:

The other 8v G60s used the same engine (essentially) as the GTIs, other than the charger being added.

The 1H engine in the Rallye has quite a few differences - I was considering changing the head gasket on mine at one point and the parts needed were different numbers to those for the other G60s.

I believe, but could be wrong, that among the differences were: smaller cylinder bore, different cylinder head, bigger head bolts, front mount intercooler (behind radiator rather than behind bumper/in-wing), different cam.

I think I still have a genuine Rallye cam somewhere in the garage actually.

The Limited wasn't built for any sort of homologation as far as I'm aware - not raced/rallied, was it?

Off topic but if you ever listen to 'Collecting Cars' podcasts with Chris Harris, there's one where he's talking to, I think, Dickie Meaden about their old days as journalists on car launches and one of the anecdotes was around an 'incident' with a Limited borrowed for an article. It would have been new at the time.

I suspect the ‘incident’ involved a hard launch and blown diff when figuring the car?!

[PorkInsider]

Leins said:

...and I don’t believe the 16v G60 motor was used in any other applications.

Definitely didn't go into any other official models that I'm aware of.

s m said:

I suspect the ‘incident’ involved a hard launch and blown diff when figuring the car?!

Could have been! But I seem to have something in my mind about it going up a banking, or something, unless I'm mixing stories up.