RE: Isle of Man TT with Mark Higgins
Discussion
hairykrishna said:
I think a single seater, F1 style, hillclimber is the best starting point not a rally car. The surface is no worse than most hillclimb tracks and the fact that they'll have to lift for a couple of the jumps will be more than compensated for by the fact that it'd be much, much faster everywhere else. Bigger tank, change the ratios, done. It'll lose a bit at the top end because the aero will be too aggressive but I doubt that'd matter.
You see, I'd say that's far more rational than something modified from a production car with all the inherent flaws that brings. Either one of the open-wheel lunatic ones, or a closed-wheel open-or-closed-top Sports Libre one with some mental production-derived engine, AWD, 13" slicks and about 1000bhp/tonne would have a fair chance.ManOpener said:
You see, I'd say that's far more rational than something modified from a production car with all the inherent flaws that brings. Either one of the open-wheel lunatic ones, or a closed-wheel open-or-closed-top Sports Libre one with some mental production-derived engine, AWD, 13" slicks and about 1000bhp/tonne would have a fair chance.
It would still be interesting to see a MotoGP bike with more power and quite a bit less weight run the course, it'll never happen though, neither will the cars discussed.
caine100 said:
To beat the bikes you'd need a driver who is willing to die to prove a point and something like this:
Yes, if you watch a hot 130mph TT lap and then watch Tony Ponds 100mph lap, even Top Gear audience types should realise that even approaching the bikes average speeds would be a gargantuan task.Of course the 'dab of oppo' types, with little real grasp of whats involved, or about cars really, it seems; will continue to post pictures of GT racers and F1 cars, which are enough of a handful on a circuit, let alone a country lane at 200mph!
GC8 said:
Of course the 'dab of oppo' types, with little real grasp of whats involved, or about cars really, it seems; will continue to post pictures of GT racers and F1 cars, which are enough of a handful on a circuit, let alone a country lane at 200mph!
How about a video of an F1 car on the TT circuit instead?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlxuzLGqT7U
king genius idea to put the map on the bonnet s'os not to get lost.
A new subject to me, as didnt see the "chat" last year.
Whilst not versed on exact lap times, i would say, give an out of the showroom superbike to any of these guys, allow tyre and suspension tweaks and it will be quicker than any mass produced showroom car with equivalent changes! To match a standard superbike acceleration there is mention of pikes peaks cars, rallycross cars etc, hardly a fair comparison!
Whilst not versed on exact lap times, i would say, give an out of the showroom superbike to any of these guys, allow tyre and suspension tweaks and it will be quicker than any mass produced showroom car with equivalent changes! To match a standard superbike acceleration there is mention of pikes peaks cars, rallycross cars etc, hardly a fair comparison!
Surely this can end now?
As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
rtz62 said:
Surely this can end now?
As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
No its got to be a priceless F1 car to beat the £16K bike or nothing ;o) end.As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
rtz62 said:
Surely this can end now?
As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
I presume you're talking about the Atom 300 but the V8 Atom that Brogan raced against in that Top Gear episode was slower than his superstock bike. Then the TG producers said that it wasnt fair that a non-road legal bike was racing a road-legal car so they put him on a stock S1000RR which was about a second slower than the car. As there is no likelyhood (so it seems) that whatever authorities and motorsport bodies will allow cars to run in the foreseeable future, it's all hypothetical, finger-in-the-wind stuff anyway.
Until the time comes when cars are allowed to show their true mettle we will NEVER know. That's 'never'.
Having said that, I'd like to see a supercharged Ariel Atom with the 'right' pilot have a go - is that near enough to being a 4-wheeled bike to satisfy the bike/car factions, with no aero etc.....?
Anyway, my point is that the Atom V8 just isn't quick enough to beat the bike on a smooth circuit let alone the narrow-in-places TT course where the bike's ability to "straightline" the corners would be a huge advantage. I have no doubt that there's a car somewhere out there that can beat McGuinness' time but its definitely not a production car of any sort
The mistake that people keep making, even those who have seen Tony Ponds 100mph lap (beyond a foolish Clarksonesque 'cars are better'), is thinking that making up the difference between a 100mph lap and the 135mph lap thatd be required to better bikes, is easy, because its only 30mph...
Watch Tony Ponds lap again - the difference in road speeds required to increase the average speed to current Senior levels are MASSIVE and I dont think that Sebastian Loeb, or even Mark Higgins, whose local knowledge makes up for his being a less accomplished driver, could get close, irrespective of their vehicle.
I will go further and say that a free car would struggle to match the speed of a Production 600!
Watch Tony Ponds lap again - the difference in road speeds required to increase the average speed to current Senior levels are MASSIVE and I dont think that Sebastian Loeb, or even Mark Higgins, whose local knowledge makes up for his being a less accomplished driver, could get close, irrespective of their vehicle.
I will go further and say that a free car would struggle to match the speed of a Production 600!
BlackPrince said:
I have no doubt that there's a car somewhere out there that can beat McGuinness' time but its definitely not a production car of any sort
I'd agree with that. Possibly excepting something like the Radical SR8 which stretches the definition of 'production car' to breaking point.GC8 said:
The mistake that people keep making, even those who have seen Tony Ponds 100mph lap (beyond a foolish Clarksonesque 'cars are better'), is thinking that making up the difference between a 100mph lap and the 135mph lap thatd be required to better bikes, is easy, because its only 30mph...
Watch Tony Ponds lap again - the difference in road speeds required to increase the average speed to current Senior levels are MASSIVE and I dont think that Sebastian Loeb, or even Mark Higgins, whose local knowledge makes up for his being a less accomplished driver, could get close, irrespective of their vehicle.
I will go further and say that a free car would struggle to match the speed of a Production 600!
The thing is, everywhere cars and bikes race, cars are faster. So I think driver out of the equation the car would be faster. Real world, the fact that the people who know the course best specialise in bikes may even the playing field but I doubt it'd be by enough to make up the difference to a top flight single seat race car. How many laps it's make it round, if any, before meeting a wall would of course be a factor.Watch Tony Ponds lap again - the difference in road speeds required to increase the average speed to current Senior levels are MASSIVE and I dont think that Sebastian Loeb, or even Mark Higgins, whose local knowledge makes up for his being a less accomplished driver, could get close, irrespective of their vehicle.
I will go further and say that a free car would struggle to match the speed of a Production 600!
Edited by hairykrishna on Sunday 10th June 19:30
The only thing I'm sure of is you know nothing. Stand by the side of St Ninians's crossroads during a superbike race and you will realise how fast these bikes go. Way, way faster than anything you've ever seen.
Fair play to Mark Higgins for a fantastic piece of driving but he wasn't even close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jSYiU-JdRw
Fair play to Mark Higgins for a fantastic piece of driving but he wasn't even close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jSYiU-JdRw
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 10th June 19:59
wormus said:
The only thing I'm sure of is you know nothing. Stand by the side of St Ninians's crossroads during a superbike race and you will realise how fast these bikes go. Way, way faster than anything you've ever seen.
Fair play to Mark Higgins for a fantastic piece of driving but he wasn't even close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jSYiU-JdRw
I was at Le Mans last year and made my way over to the Mulsanne, so probably not 'Way, way faster' than anything I've ever seen. The corners are where the bikes lose out anyway. Find a course, where cars and bikes run, where the bikes are faster than the cars. Fair play to Mark Higgins for a fantastic piece of driving but he wasn't even close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jSYiU-JdRw
Mark Higgins was way off but he was driving a nearly standard road car.
hairykrishna said:
I was at Le Mans last year and made my way over to the Mulsanne, so probably not 'Way, way faster' than anything I've ever seen. The corners are where the bikes lose out anyway. Find a course, where cars and bikes run, where the bikes are faster than the cars.
Mark Higgins was way off but he was driving a nearly standard road car.
Yes, but the Mulsanne straight is not the width of your average high street. Car will never run as fast as a bike around he TT as the (F1) car will not stay together. Mark Higgins was way off but he was driving a nearly standard road car.
Don't mean to be rude but I've been going to the TT for 15 years and it's still mental. Go over and see what I mean.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 10th June 20:34
This was fun last year.
Was it Rob M3 who started to put science and facts to counter the biker's arguments before the bikers went quiet?
Would a cheap 'bike engined single seater be a fair comparison?
How about a Formula Jedi?
The chassis is a steel spaceframe (obsolete in F1 in 1962), the rear suspension was obsolete in F1 in about 1977, the front suspension was obsolete in the early eighties, the aero is basic and the available gears are equivalent to a bike. The weight is about 400kg (give or take), but I bet it would give a 1000cc bike a run for it's money over the whole course if the appropriate gears were put in.
If there was a crash though...
Was it Rob M3 who started to put science and facts to counter the biker's arguments before the bikers went quiet?
Would a cheap 'bike engined single seater be a fair comparison?
How about a Formula Jedi?
The chassis is a steel spaceframe (obsolete in F1 in 1962), the rear suspension was obsolete in F1 in about 1977, the front suspension was obsolete in the early eighties, the aero is basic and the available gears are equivalent to a bike. The weight is about 400kg (give or take), but I bet it would give a 1000cc bike a run for it's money over the whole course if the appropriate gears were put in.
If there was a crash though...
GC8 said:
Life Saab Itch said:
Was it Rob M3 who started to put science and facts to counter the biker's arguments before the bikers went quiet?
Silly comments like this are the bane of the discussion.Im not a 'biker', in fact Im not sure what one actually is?
caine100 said:
Suggesting a car that has a lot less horsepower than the bikes have will go round faster is not really a "sensible point".
It's got a 1000cc bike engine in it.Swap it for the motor that was in McPint's bike and it'll have the same power.
It'll accelerate slower, have a lower top speed due to the higher frontal area, but have more corner speed.
I don't see how it's not a sensible point. It was sensible last year.
I'm putting my suggestion at a disadvantage, yet you're saying it's not sensible?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff