RE: Volvo S60 Polestar: official details

[Jayho]

DanDC5 said:

Triumph Man said:

DanDC5 said:

Even better if it did

Can't beat a sleeper.

Exactly! I can't say 'If Hyundai made a RWD sports car...' anymore because, well, they do

That's a car that NEEDS to be released in the UK. Can't understand why they never have? They'd have cleaned up on sales, especially with the engine options it comes with.

It all comes down to the UK Culture... There is a lot more emphasis on the badge than the car here compared to other countries. I think the Hyundai Genesis sells very well in America, and I think that is because they are less prone to badge snobery. We somehow live in a culture where someone will buy a BMW 1 Series and come winter time put snow socks on the front wheels. Classic example of buying a badge and not buying the car.

All Volvo really need to do if they release it is sell it in limited numbers. In my opinion its not really a car to compete against their German Rivals as such, (And I am by no way saying they "cant" compete, I'm saying its probably not the main objective), a car like this is only going to increase the awareness of the Volvo range. Sell a few of these super desireable models, and watch sales increase on lesser models for those who are impressed by the top flagship. Will the BMW 3 Series have done so well if they had never put a single M Badge on it? I'm not 100% sure. By no means am I saying its not a good car, or that it doesnt deserve the sales, but without these flagship models I think the awareness of the car would not be as large.

[After_Shock]

Bladedancer said:

I find this 3.9 0-60 really, REALLY hard to believe.

Also, straight line heroics being nice but not quite everything, will it handle?
If it wants to rival M3 it better handle like a dream.

Who says its trying to rival the M3? Car manufacturer makes a quick saloon is it suddenly a rival to the M3? Why did no one compare the insignia VXR to the M3 when that came out on that basis!

And why is 3.9 to 60 so unrealistic? If it reaches 60 in 2nd gear, with AWD and 500+ bhp seems quite easy to me.

[Bladedancer]

After_Shock said:

Who says its trying to rival the M3? Car manufacturer makes a quick saloon is it suddenly a rival to the M3? Why did no one compare the insignia VXR to the M3 when that came out on that basis!

And why is 3.9 to 60 so unrealistic? If it reaches 60 in 2nd gear, with AWD and 500+ bhp seems quite easy to me.

M3 rival - It's right there, underneath the article title...

If that 0-60 is so easy, why RS6 has 4.4s despite 571BHP?
C63 4.3 from 480 BHP.
M5 4.3 from 550BHP.

You want me to believe this Volvo will be as fast as 911 Turbo? Or Ferrari F430?

0.5 of a second might not look like much but with in that time bracket it is really difficult to make car faster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad car, not by a long shot. I'm rather interested in it, provided it handles better than Volvos usually do (I had a 850, my dad has S60 and they both handled, well, poorly).

[Agoogy]

Bladedancer said:

M3 rival - It's right there, underneath the article title...

If that 0-60 is so easy, why RS6 has 4.4s despite 571BHP?
C63 4.3 from 480 BHP.
M5 4.3 from 550BHP.

Just because PH or any other publication says it's an M3 rival, then it's gospel?
It's not even in production?!
It's only a competitor if you think it is... and most BMW/Audi/MB driver's won't even recognise it, let alone put it on their list of 'maybe's'....like the Lexus...

3.9 seconds.... well "it's right there" in the article

AWD will help....isn't the RS6 heavier? just guessing...

[AlexKing]

Agoogy said:

AWD will help....isn't the RS6 heavier? just guessing...

The RS6 weighs about 1.2 metric fktons

[anonymous-user]

DJRC said:

With fk all respect to you...no it isnt. The best you can say about the inside of a Merc or BM is that they are functional.

And your problem is? The interior of my 5er is sumptuous just like most Audis and Mercs I've been in - and I'd add Volvos to that list as well. Calm down, little man.

[ManOpener]

Bladedancer said:

If that 0-60 is so easy, why RS6 has 4.4s despite 571BHP?

Because it weights slightly over two tonnes, has an automatic gearbox and is geared to do about 210mph.

Bladedancer said:

You want me to believe this Volvo will be as fast as 911 Turbo? Or Ferrari F430?

Its slower than a Mitsubishi FQ400, or plenty of modified ~400bhp AWD turbo-nutter cars. A top speed of "over" 186mph suggest that its geared more for acceleration than top speed. And they managed to get their 400bhp C30 to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

Bladedancer said:

0.5 of a second might not look like much but with in that time bracket it is really difficult to make car faster.

I don't understand how you don't think its a realistic 0-60 time when there are numerous turbocharged sports saloons with around the same power to weight ratio that achieve 0-60 times almost identical (many modified, but some standard- see above)

[Raoul Duke]

I personally love it that people find it hard to believe that a Volvo might actually be seriously quick.
I would make their shocked, disbelieving face all the more satisfying to see when you leave them standing!

[Bladedancer]

ManOpener said:

Bladedancer said:

If that 0-60 is so easy, why RS6 has 4.4s despite 571BHP?

Because it weights slightly over two tonnes, has an automatic gearbox and is geared to do about 210mph.

Bladedancer said:

You want me to believe this Volvo will be as fast as 911 Turbo? Or Ferrari F430?

Its slower than a Mitsubishi FQ400, or plenty of modified ~400bhp AWD turbo-nutter cars. A top speed of "over" 186mph suggest that its geared more for acceleration than top speed. And they managed to get their 400bhp C30 to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

Bladedancer said:

0.5 of a second might not look like much but with in that time bracket it is really difficult to make car faster.

I don't understand how you don't think its a realistic 0-60 time when there are numerous turbocharged sports saloons with around the same power to weight ratio that achieve 0-60 times almost identical (many modified, but some standard- see above)

RS6 weight slightly under 2 tonnes. Something in the region of 1985kg.
How much will this S60 weight? It won't be featherweight that's for sure. Regular T6 weight 1.7 tonne and RS6 has 70bhp extra.
C30 is a different story - smaller, lighter car (T5 is 1.5 tonne) - essentially a Focus.

So, which sports saloons have 0-60 below 4 sec? Apart from UK-special FQ400 evo.
Bearing in mind this S60 looks more like user-friendly than race bred, stripped out Evo.
And isn't Volvo's AWD system part-time Haldex based?

[Bladedancer]

Raoul Duke said:

I personally love it that people find it hard to believe that a Volvo might actually be seriously quick.
I would make their shocked, disbelieving face all the more satisfying to see when you leave them standing!

I've driven a 850R. I know they can be quick. I just think 3.9 0-60 is wishful thinking and marketing BS.

[anonymous-user]

It's not going to hang about. Arguing over 0-60 is kind of missing the point.

I don't know how people drive cars which can't hit 100 in sub 10 secs, how on earth do they keep up on the commute

[ManOpener]

Bladedancer said:

RS6 weight slightly under 2 tonnes. Something in the region of 1985kg.

Quite correct, the figure I used was for the Avant.

Bladedancer said:

How much will this S60 weight? It won't be featherweight that's for sure. Regular T6 weight 1.7 tonne and RS6 has 70bhp extra.

Around 1700kg assuming that no efforts have been made to reduce the weight. There's not much discussion of weight saving and the C30 only shed around 20kg from the production model. But in terms of power-to-weight ratio, the Polestar trumps the RS6- 299bhp/tonne versus 286. Not a huge difference, but that before you take into account the automatic gearbox and the longer gearing.

Bladedancer said:

C30 is a different story - smaller, lighter car (T5 is 1.5 tonne) - essentially a Focus.

It also had 109 less horsepower, and a lower power to weight ratio (about 275bhp/tonne); a less refined version of the Haldex AWD system too.

Bladedancer said:

So, which sports saloons have 0-60 below 4 sec? Apart from UK-special FQ400 evo.
Bearing in mind this S60 looks more like user-friendly than race bred, stripped out Evo.

Production or modified? There are a whole raft of modified Imprezas, Evos and B5 S/RS4s which are achieving sub-4-second 0-60 times with between 400-500bhp. MTM's supercharged B7 RS4 Avant is advertised as "sub 4 seconds" in its 0-60 sprint and that weighs around 1800kg. As an interesting aside, the FQ400 has a power-to-weight ratio of about 289bhp/tonne, which is less than the Polestar (albeit not by much).

I don't quite understand why you find it so hard to grasp?

Bladedancer said:

And isn't Volvo's AWD system part-time Haldex based?

The later generations of Haldex are closer to Mitsubishi's S-AWC or Nissan's ATTESSA than the early front-biased systems you see in Mk4 Golfs.

[mylesmcd]

ManOpener said:

Bladedancer said:

RS6 weight slightly under 2 tonnes. Something in the region of 1985kg.

Quite correct, the figure I used was for the Avant.

Bladedancer said:

How much will this S60 weight? It won't be featherweight that's for sure. Regular T6 weight 1.7 tonne and RS6 has 70bhp extra.

Around 1700kg assuming that no efforts have been made to reduce the weight. There's not much discussion of weight saving and the C30 only shed around 20kg from the production model. But in terms of power-to-weight ratio, the Polestar trumps the RS6- 299bhp/tonne versus 286. Not a huge difference, but that before you take into account the automatic gearbox and the longer gearing.

Bladedancer said:

C30 is a different story - smaller, lighter car (T5 is 1.5 tonne) - essentially a Focus.

It also had 109 less horsepower, and a lower power to weight ratio (about 275bhp/tonne); a less refined version of the Haldex AWD system too.

Bladedancer said:

So, which sports saloons have 0-60 below 4 sec? Apart from UK-special FQ400 evo.
Bearing in mind this S60 looks more like user-friendly than race bred, stripped out Evo.

Production or modified? There are a whole raft of modified Imprezas, Evos and B5 S/RS4s which are achieving sub-4-second 0-60 times with between 400-500bhp. MTM's supercharged B7 RS4 Avant is advertised as "sub 4 seconds" in its 0-60 sprint and that weighs around 1800kg. As an interesting aside, the FQ400 has a power-to-weight ratio of about 289bhp/tonne, which is less than the Polestar (albeit not by much).

I don't quite understand why you find it so hard to grasp?

Bladedancer said:

And isn't Volvo's AWD system part-time Haldex based?

The later generations of Haldex are closer to Mitsubishi's S-AWC or Nissan's ATTESSA than the early front-biased systems you see in Mk4 Golfs.

That looks like one large cup of STFU right there!

So its back to you guys in the studio....

[BlackBeastT5]

0-60 is absolutely meaningless anyway, unless the traffic light grand prix is your thing, which for most Volvo owners, it isn't. Did I say that like a true FWD Volvo owner?

Now a 60-100mph time would be more impressive. If it can do that in sub 4.5seconds it has to be respected.

[jimbobsimmonds]

Yea blackbeast.... We never indulge in such vulgar antics such as 0-60, its all about 60-100.....

[After_Shock]

Bladedancer said:

M3 rival - It's right there, underneath the article title...

If that 0-60 is so easy, why RS6 has 4.4s despite 571BHP?
C63 4.3 from 480 BHP.
M5 4.3 from 550BHP.

You want me to believe this Volvo will be as fast as 911 Turbo? Or Ferrari F430?

0.5 of a second might not look like much but with in that time bracket it is really difficult to make car faster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad car, not by a long shot. I'm rather interested in it, provided it handles better than Volvos usually do (I had a 850, my dad has S60 and they both handled, well, poorly).

Go back to my original post in this thread, did Volvo write the title of the article saying its an M3 rival?? No they didnt PH did in this example, as always with the press we see something and thats it everyone jumps behind it.

Also has very well been said, the RS6 is over 2 tonnes and uses an old style auto box.

C63 is RWD, get its power to the ground through only 2 tyres, not exactly easy.

M5 again RWD, clever auto box admittedly but also a very heavy car.

If the S60's manual lets it hit 60 in 2nd like the new Astra VXR's does, 60 mph very very quickly will be achieveable.

Although 0-60 is a relatively crap way of judging performance on a car, its far from impossible.

[Bladedancer]

ManOpener said:

Bladedancer said:

RS6 weight slightly under 2 tonnes. Something in the region of 1985kg.

Quite correct, the figure I used was for the Avant.

Bladedancer said:

How much will this S60 weight? It won't be featherweight that's for sure. Regular T6 weight 1.7 tonne and RS6 has 70bhp extra.

Around 1700kg assuming that no efforts have been made to reduce the weight. There's not much discussion of weight saving and the C30 only shed around 20kg from the production model. But in terms of power-to-weight ratio, the Polestar trumps the RS6- 299bhp/tonne versus 286. Not a huge difference, but that before you take into account the automatic gearbox and the longer gearing.

Bladedancer said:

C30 is a different story - smaller, lighter car (T5 is 1.5 tonne) - essentially a Focus.

It also had 109 less horsepower, and a lower power to weight ratio (about 275bhp/tonne); a less refined version of the Haldex AWD system too.

Bladedancer said:

So, which sports saloons have 0-60 below 4 sec? Apart from UK-special FQ400 evo.
Bearing in mind this S60 looks more like user-friendly than race bred, stripped out Evo.

Production or modified? There are a whole raft of modified Imprezas, Evos and B5 S/RS4s which are achieving sub-4-second 0-60 times with between 400-500bhp. MTM's supercharged B7 RS4 Avant is advertised as "sub 4 seconds" in its 0-60 sprint and that weighs around 1800kg. As an interesting aside, the FQ400 has a power-to-weight ratio of about 289bhp/tonne, which is less than the Polestar (albeit not by much).

I don't quite understand why you find it so hard to grasp?

Bladedancer said:

And isn't Volvo's AWD system part-time Haldex based?

The later generations of Haldex are closer to Mitsubishi's S-AWC or Nissan's ATTESSA than the early front-biased systems you see in Mk4 Golfs.

It's pointless to compare modified to stock cars. You can tune RS6 and make it even faster. Let's stick to stock cars (ie what you can buy in the showroom) and leave tuned cars alone.
If polestar's Haldex is RWD biased as you say it might be usable and actually be able to transfer power.

People keep dinging autoboxes, but aren't the dual cluth ones faster than manual change? Having said that I don't remember what box RS6 has.

[ManOpener]

Bladedancer said:

It's pointless to compare modified to stock cars. You can tune RS6 and make it even faster. Let's stick to stock cars (ie what you can buy in the showroom) and leave tuned cars alone.

Last time I checked, this was not a "stock" car. It's been modified by a tuning company, albeit on associated closely with the manufacturer. So, I would argue that it's closer to something like the MTM supercharged RS4 anyway. Now, if Volvo put it into production as a "Polestar" model then you could argue that it was a production vehicle (albeit in the way that Ruf Porsches are "production" cars) but until that point it is modified. So a comparison with other modified cars makes a great deal of sense

Bladedancer said:

If polestar's Haldex is RWD biased as you say it might be usable and actually be able to transfer power.

The "driven" article that appeared the day after this one suggests as much.

Bladedancer said:

People keep dinging autoboxes, but aren't the dual cluth ones faster than manual change? Having said that I don't remember what box RS6 has.

The RS6 came with a Tiptronic box, so a regular-type automatic box with a torque converter rather than a double-clutch.

[Bladedancer]

ManOpener said:

Bladedancer said:

It's pointless to compare modified to stock cars. You can tune RS6 and make it even faster. Let's stick to stock cars (ie what you can buy in the showroom) and leave tuned cars alone.

Last time I checked, this was not a "stock" car. It's been modified by a tuning company, albeit on associated closely with the manufacturer. So, I would argue that it's closer to something like the MTM supercharged RS4 anyway. Now, if Volvo put it into production as a "Polestar" model then you could argue that it was a production vehicle (albeit in the way that Ruf Porsches are "production" cars) but until that point it is modified. So a comparison with other modified cars makes a great deal of sense

Bladedancer said:

If polestar's Haldex is RWD biased as you say it might be usable and actually be able to transfer power.

The "driven" article that appeared the day after this one suggests as much.

Bladedancer said:

People keep dinging autoboxes, but aren't the dual cluth ones faster than manual change? Having said that I don't remember what box RS6 has.

The RS6 came with a Tiptronic box, so a regular-type automatic box with a torque converter rather than a double-clutch.

If you compare stock to modified, you can compare with 1000BHP+ sequential box GTRs (the still road legal ones) that can destroy about anything on the planet.
So I prefer to stick to whatever the company is offering at the dealership. If this car was sold by Volvo then it should be compared with other showroom cars and I think it would do rather well, especially if price was reasonable. Heck, if it handled well I'd buy it (after a few years of depreciation that is ) I still have fond memories of my 850.
If you want to treat it as modified car... then there's a LOT of hardware out there that makes this one look fairly mundane.