Cars you didn't know existed...

[BFleming]

Fast Bug said:

thebigmacmoomin said:

They like their rear legroom, hence the long wheel base Audi A3 / 4 which is China only.

(assuming that Top Gear were correct all those years ago)

Yup, you can get a long wheel base C and E Class as well as a long wheelbase 5 Series in China

Never mind the 5 series, you can get a lwb 3 series G20 in China. I give to you, the G28:


The X3 G01 is sold in China in lwb form too (surprise surprise) as the G08. No point in showing a picture of that though, it just looks like the regular X3.

Jaguar also sell a XF L for China. Yay.

[Mr Tidy]

So it's still true, you can't buy taste - even if you can start a pandemic!

[Blown2CV]

you can get LWB versions of lots of cars in China. it's like a weird status symbol thing.

[Mr.Jimbo]

You could also order (for a time) a 2.0L Range Rover/Range Rover sport in China, people didn't care what was under the bonnet, just that they were seen in the back of a nice looking car.

JLR do LWB XE and XF just for China for the same reason.

[Blown2CV]

Mr.Jimbo said:

You could also order (for a time) a 2.0L Range Rover/Range Rover sport in China, people didn't care what was under the bonnet, just that they were seen in the back of a nice looking car.

thought that was what the Velar was for

[Jimmy Recard]

The hybrid Range Rover Sport and Range Rover here are 2.0:
https://www.whatcar.com/land-rover/range-rover/4x4...

Or a 2.0 non-hybrid version?

[Chris944_S2]

Dapster said:

You'd think that when Peugeot Citroen wanted to build and sell a Citroen C2 in China, they'd, you know, base it on the Citroen C2? Now that would be silly wouldn't it?

Dongfeng Citroën C2



Pug 206

It makes sense, Citroën entered the Chinese market very early and pushed for it, so their brand is much better represented there.
If they want to sell a Peugeot model in China, it’s much easier for PSA to do it under the Citroën brand name.

[tog]

RDMcG said:

Concept car Chrysler Atlantic 1995 ...I like this:

That reminds me of the slightly later Chrysler Chronos.



I heard from the then-owner of Bristol Cars that Bristol looked into doing a small run of a production version of the Chronos. I don't know if it was at their own or Chrysler's instigation, or even if it was true, but a V10 Chrysler-Bristol saloon would have been quite a thing.

[AndrewCrown]

Blown2CV said:

you can get LWB versions of lots of cars in China. it's like a weird status symbol thing.

B2CV

It is not that weird... think back to the origins of the car and earlier the carraige in our markets, models for chaffeur and owner... later owner driven models.

In China it is a sign of good taste and prestige to be driven at all levels of commerce and officialdom. Throw in narrow streets, general hierarchy, tax based on displacement and the sheer expense of western brands it is easy to see why a 3 Series L might exist.

There may also be a complication on western brands having joint ventures with Chinese firms.. so a degree of exclusivity on model may also be contractually demanded.

[Rostfritt]

BFleming said:

Or a "nice" Mitsubishi Outlander:




Crude conversions as you can see. There are so many more. The funniest ones I've seen are SUV's described as "Crew Cab". So 5 seats, rear glass etc... exactly the same as the non-commercial variant.

That does look awful. I would have thought the Outlander PHEV would have been pretty low on tax, making such a conversion unnecessary.

[Mr.Jimbo]

Jimmy Recard said:

The hybrid Range Rover Sport and Range Rover here are 2.0:
https://www.whatcar.com/land-rover/range-rover/4x4...

Or a 2.0 non-hybrid version?

Yes should have said this was a long way back now, 2012 I think. 2.0L non hybrid, 240PS/340Nm.

To be honest, of the few engineering cars I drove, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, reasonable torque and quite fun to drive in a sport actually.

[Jimmy Recard]

Mr.Jimbo said:

Yes should have said this was a long way back now, 2012 I think. 2.0L non hybrid, 240PS/340Nm.

To be honest, of the few engineering cars I drove, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, reasonable torque and quite fun to drive in a sport actually.

Interesting!

I assume there was a big tax advantage to the 2.0?

I remember reading about 2.0 Jaguar XJs in foreign markets while the smallest we got was 3.0 diesel or 3.0 petrol

[PushedDover]

Rostfritt said:

That does look awful. I would have thought the Outlander PHEV would have been pretty low on tax, making such a conversion unnecessary.

VAT purposes too ? See also the Nene Overland Volvo XC90 hybrid...

[Jimmy Recard]

AndrewCrown said:

B2CV

It is not that weird... think back to the origins of the car and earlier the carraige in our markets, models for chaffeur and owner... later owner driven models.

In China it is a sign of good taste and prestige to be driven at all levels of commerce and officialdom. Throw in narrow streets, general hierarchy, tax based on displacement and the sheer expense of western brands it is easy to see why a 3 Series L might exist.

There may also be a complication on western brands having joint ventures with Chinese firms.. so a degree of exclusivity on model may also be contractually demanded.

Also, I like driving in Britain but I think that if I lived in most Chinese cities, I’d want to be driven. It doesn’t really sound like a great driving country

[Evercross]

Jimmy Recard said:

Interesting!

I assume there was a big tax advantage to the 2.0?

I remember reading about 2.0 Jaguar XJs in foreign markets while the smallest we got was 3.0 diesel or 3.0 petrol

2.0 Cut-off point marked a massive increase in purchase tax in Italy - that's why Ferrari made a 2.0 V8 turbo engine for their domestic market only.

[Matt Cup]

Evercross said:

Jimmy Recard said:

Interesting!

I assume there was a big tax advantage to the 2.0?

I remember reading about 2.0 Jaguar XJs in foreign markets while the smallest we got was 3.0 diesel or 3.0 petrol

2.0 Cut-off point marked a massive increase in purchase tax in Italy - that's why Ferrari made a 2.0 V8 turbo engine for their domestic market only.

Same with the E30 BMW 320is was made for certain markets as the S14 M3 engine displacement was over the threshold so they made it smaller.

[Jimmy Recard]

Evercross said:

2.0 Cut-off point marked a massive increase in purchase tax in Italy - that's why Ferrari made a 2.0 V8 turbo engine for their domestic market only.

Yes, I remember that being the case in Italy. The 2.0 MPI Discovery was sold here but mainly built because of markets where there was a 2.0 tax threshold, I believe?

New Zealand also rings a bell for similar rules

[Doofus]

Matt Cup said:

Evercross said:

Jimmy Recard said:

Interesting!

I assume there was a big tax advantage to the 2.0?

I remember reading about 2.0 Jaguar XJs in foreign markets while the smallest we got was 3.0 diesel or 3.0 petrol

2.0 Cut-off point marked a massive increase in purchase tax in Italy - that's why Ferrari made a 2.0 V8 turbo engine for their domestic market only.

Same with the E30 BMW 320is was made for certain markets as the S14 M3 engine displacement was over the threshold so they made it smaller.

Not only Italy, but Portugal too.

[Triumph Man]

Mr.Jimbo said:

Jimmy Recard said:

The hybrid Range Rover Sport and Range Rover here are 2.0:
https://www.whatcar.com/land-rover/range-rover/4x4...

Or a 2.0 non-hybrid version?

Yes should have said this was a long way back now, 2012 I think. 2.0L non hybrid, 240PS/340Nm.

To be honest, of the few engineering cars I drove, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, reasonable torque and quite fun to drive in a sport actually.

One of the directors at work bought a Velar with the 2.0 petrol engine. Inside it was exquisite, but when he started it up there was a slight resonant vibration through the cabin and when he accelerated it sounded strained and horrible.

[Mr.Jimbo]

Jimmy Recard said:

Interesting!

I assume there was a big tax advantage to the 2.0?

I remember reading about 2.0 Jaguar XJs in foreign markets while the smallest we got was 3.0 diesel or 3.0 petrol

The 2.0 XJ was a great car to drive, so light for its size and beautifully balanced with weight taken out of the nose.

I don't know the ins and outs, I think tax was cheaper but still something daft like 40-50% (V8 was over 50% I remember hearing) - as I understood it was literally to make the car cheaper because people only wanted to be seen in luxury cars. They wouldn't spec options, just needed it to look shiny and have a range rover badge. Look at BMW - big grilles sell big in China (because people see it and see you have a BMW) so we in the rest of the world get stuck with them.