RE: Lotus: Dead weight lifted or dead man walking?
Discussion
ts who buy a car on looks or colour, like those who dream of owning a white audi TT etc
It's the steady move upmarket that made no sense to me.
Most people associate Lotus with innovative but simple, dynamically brilliant, light and relatively affordable cars. The original Elise, for example was all of those things, and a huge success. Who cares if bits fall off it, it leaks, and needs constant fettling to keep it driving as it should? If they did, you wouldn't still pay over 1/3 of its original price for a decent one today. It's a proper Lotus which delivers a level of innovative simplicity and a driving experience that you simply can't find elsewhere at anything like its price.
Nowadays they seem to be pitching themselves as premium, high quality machines, by pricing cars on Porsche's level (who really do make premium, high quality machines). And the Elise hasn't been properly updated for over a decade.
Doomed.
Most people associate Lotus with innovative but simple, dynamically brilliant, light and relatively affordable cars. The original Elise, for example was all of those things, and a huge success. Who cares if bits fall off it, it leaks, and needs constant fettling to keep it driving as it should? If they did, you wouldn't still pay over 1/3 of its original price for a decent one today. It's a proper Lotus which delivers a level of innovative simplicity and a driving experience that you simply can't find elsewhere at anything like its price.
Nowadays they seem to be pitching themselves as premium, high quality machines, by pricing cars on Porsche's level (who really do make premium, high quality machines). And the Elise hasn't been properly updated for over a decade.
Doomed.
I think the basic plan is to sell cars into Asia and the states...the UK and Europe is tiny compared with the potential in these markets. If they succed in this direction then I can see the production being scaled down to assembly only for Europe in the UK, and of course the key design and development division remaining, with the main production plant being in Asia.
You only need a tiny proportion of people to buy your car in Chian to add up to a lot of cars. Whats more high profile to these markets than F1 and a first class racing pedigree.
Its really all down to the management and them fully understanding what they have in Lotus, but sadly they probably do not.
Big press release Monday apparently. Shortly going to test drive the V6 Exige just for the hell of it...I am very happy with my Elise SC, but I will admit the "only" criticism is that the engine is a bit dull at low revs, otherwise it brilliant fun to drive. Sat in a Cayman the other day and was surprisingly dissappointed with the feel....at least in the Lotus, there is not much to be dissappointed about, with regard to the interior. Can totally see a major problem for many people is simply getting in and out of them!...but the solution is simple...stop buying so many pies, and save your money for an Elise!
You only need a tiny proportion of people to buy your car in Chian to add up to a lot of cars. Whats more high profile to these markets than F1 and a first class racing pedigree.
Its really all down to the management and them fully understanding what they have in Lotus, but sadly they probably do not.
Big press release Monday apparently. Shortly going to test drive the V6 Exige just for the hell of it...I am very happy with my Elise SC, but I will admit the "only" criticism is that the engine is a bit dull at low revs, otherwise it brilliant fun to drive. Sat in a Cayman the other day and was surprisingly dissappointed with the feel....at least in the Lotus, there is not much to be dissappointed about, with regard to the interior. Can totally see a major problem for many people is simply getting in and out of them!...but the solution is simple...stop buying so many pies, and save your money for an Elise!
kambites said:
Limpet said:
Most people associate Lotus with innovative but simple, dynamically brilliant, light and relatively affordable cars.
I disagree. Most people have simply never heard of Lotus. Although the brand being somewhere near the front in F1 this year will help that.
Perhaps I should have written "Lotus customers associate the brand with....".
I think they need a great cheap little roadster, with a little more room inside than an Elise but not huge, sadly people are getting taller and wider these days, and whats wrong with a decent badged high performance saloon car with a bit of cheap high street buzz.
Lotus Cortina
Sunbeam Lotus
They do the image on the high street wonders.
Lotus Cortina
Sunbeam Lotus
They do the image on the high street wonders.
kambites said:
In Lotus' main target markets (Malaysia, etc) how many people had a TV last time Lotus were in F1?
28.I don't think that the Far East is realistically the main target for Lotus yet. DB seemed to put the greatest emphasis in the American market, although how successful that was is questionable.
In the meantime though, they have been driving around in their Proton Savvys.
And I'm sure Mr Bond didn't do the brand any harm globally.
Limpet said:
It's the steady move upmarket that made no sense to me.
Most people associate Lotus with innovative but simple, dynamically brilliant, light and relatively affordable cars. The original Elise, for example was all of those things, and a huge success.
From a business case point of view the Elise was a flop. They didn't and can't make money selling cheap cars to skint enthusiasts.Most people associate Lotus with innovative but simple, dynamically brilliant, light and relatively affordable cars. The original Elise, for example was all of those things, and a huge success.
They don't have a badge that appeals to people with money to more upmarket cars, so they may as well give up on manufacturing.
SpunkyM said:
yeh, I know Mazda have economies of scale.. but you've got to start somewhere. You've got to have an affordable model in the line up for people like me when I was 25.
To be honest, I don't think twentysomethings wanting an affordable car have been or ever will be a key demographic for Lotus. More thirty/forty something, second or third car - more double garage than outside mum's house. People do buy them in their twenties, but they are either well off or buying used.It's funny how some small British car marks seem to last, take Morgan, Aston Martin and until recently Bristol. By making basically the same car or in the same mold for years. Lotus also was different it try to keep up with current technology and styling. (The Esprit was a very different car at the start of production to the car sold at the end).
The Elise really was different to any over sports car and showed what they could do, using new production technology and good design to create a real drivers sports car. The focus since has move away from this to large cars aimed at drivers who want more than great handling and good looks. They want a life style car, an image car, Lotus does not give this in the way a Ferrari, Aston Martin or even a Porsche can. Sad as the Lotus will as good and most likely better handling than them, under most road conditions. I don't know what Lotus should do next. All I can say is the Elise is the first car most people think of for a Lotus, followed by the Esprit and for me the Elite.
Will Lotus me with us in ten years? I hope so.
The Elise really was different to any over sports car and showed what they could do, using new production technology and good design to create a real drivers sports car. The focus since has move away from this to large cars aimed at drivers who want more than great handling and good looks. They want a life style car, an image car, Lotus does not give this in the way a Ferrari, Aston Martin or even a Porsche can. Sad as the Lotus will as good and most likely better handling than them, under most road conditions. I don't know what Lotus should do next. All I can say is the Elise is the first car most people think of for a Lotus, followed by the Esprit and for me the Elite.
Will Lotus me with us in ten years? I hope so.
Fittster said:
From a business case point of view the Elise was a flop. They didn't and can't make money selling cheap cars to skint enthusiasts.
I would not agree with that - I would say that they failed to capitalise upon the opportunity that the unexpected success of the Elise gave them. The cars were not updated and compelling new models were not forthcoming.KDIcarmad said:
It's funny how some small British car marks seem to last, take Morgan, Aston Martin and until recently Bristol. By making basically the same car or in the same mold for years. Lotus also was different it try to keep up with current technology and styling. (The Esprit was a very different car at the start of production to the car sold at the end).
The Elise really was different to any over sports car and showed what they could do, using new production technology and good design to create a real drivers sports car. The focus since has move away from this to large cars aimed at drivers who want more than great handling and good looks. They want a life style car, an image car, Lotus does not give this in the way a Ferrari, Aston Martin or even a Porsche can. Sad as the Lotus will as good and most likely better handling than them, under most road conditions. I don't know what Lotus should do next. All I can say is the Elise is the first car most people think of for a Lotus, followed by the Esprit and for me the Elite.
Will Lotus me with us in ten years? I hope so.
Really? Sticking with plastic bodies, 3 rd party engines and gearboxes etc isnt very innovative. The Elise really was different to any over sports car and showed what they could do, using new production technology and good design to create a real drivers sports car. The focus since has move away from this to large cars aimed at drivers who want more than great handling and good looks. They want a life style car, an image car, Lotus does not give this in the way a Ferrari, Aston Martin or even a Porsche can. Sad as the Lotus will as good and most likely better handling than them, under most road conditions. I don't know what Lotus should do next. All I can say is the Elise is the first car most people think of for a Lotus, followed by the Esprit and for me the Elite.
Will Lotus me with us in ten years? I hope so.
The bonded chassis was good but I am not sure there's much else is there?
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