RE: No more cars from TVR, says Smolensky
Discussion
Cyder said:
I think some of you guys are massively underestimating how much it costs to tool up something relatively small, plus any part would then need to be tested (well, it should be!).
Tooling/testing (D+D) cost even for a relatively simple small plastic part could be in the region of £15k.
To be fair, TVR used to get round this quite effectively by using a technique called "not bothering". They also didn't make anything out of plastic so no tooling required.Tooling/testing (D+D) cost even for a relatively simple small plastic part could be in the region of £15k.
I love threads like this though. "How hard can it be?" - Bloody hard and expensive. Even bloody harder and more expensive if you do it properly.
You've got to admire Wheeler though. He sold up at a point where TVR weren't selling any cars; their fortunes died with the economy and the next guy gets all the blame.
louiebaby said:
Do BMW do a twin turbo, V8 diesel? What cars do they use it in?
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0906dp_bmw_...
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0906dp_bmw_...
With 330 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque it wouldn't have been a slouch either.
Edited by V8 GRF on Wednesday 11th July 09:06
Cotic said:
900T-R said:
If I were planning to restart TVR beyond an aftermarket and race team support business and maybe turn out half a dozen Sagarii, I'd be on Jaguar Land Rover's doorstep PDQ.
Why? So they can sell marked-up Ford engines to him?Actually Moleskins only made two mistakes and unfortuantely those mistakes led to the demise of TVR. The quality of the final cars was excellent, the skilled workforce (which you cannot replicate anywhere else easily) could have been scaled back to deal with the economic downturn however what he should have done was
1) Kept a very low profile and put in a British head of the company, it was absolutlely key that the company was seen to be 'British', it was at the core of the brand. It lost that the moment he began to do interviews etc and make stupid comments, remember 'Orgasmic Living'!
2) And the killer. Not buying the freehold for Bristol Ave. This meant to business was no longer scalable, you can reduce the workforce, scale back production but when you major overhead is cast in stone your screwed
1) Kept a very low profile and put in a British head of the company, it was absolutlely key that the company was seen to be 'British', it was at the core of the brand. It lost that the moment he began to do interviews etc and make stupid comments, remember 'Orgasmic Living'!
2) And the killer. Not buying the freehold for Bristol Ave. This meant to business was no longer scalable, you can reduce the workforce, scale back production but when you major overhead is cast in stone your screwed
Vitorio said:
julian64 said:
I just think smelly misunderstood the whole nature of TVR.
TVR wasn't a car producer, it was a kit car producer. Let me explain.
If you want to mass produce cars like the russian, you need expensive tooling, shiny clean high mantenance factories and large numbers of workers specialising in their own little bit of the car. Someone who spends their life getting very good at sticking a wingmirror on. Big overheads but superbly produced cars with great attention to detail trying to step the tightrope of economies of scale.
Instead TVR had bob. Bob was a man who could build a kit car from scratch. Go to any kit car show and you will find bob. I saw him last year at stoneleigh. He was standing in front of an immaculate GT40 with a LS7 engine in. I can build that for you in any colour for £50K he said. I was very tempted.
I suspect the blackpool factory, was a factory full of enthusiastic bobs harnessed and sometimes pushed to the limit by the management. The cars came out like kit cars but in a way that could not be achieved by the russians model. The Russian thought he had bought a car factory. What he didn't realise is that he hadn't bought a factory at all with his money, he had bought the loyalty of a number of bobs which he then squandered. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the accountants went round the factory and instead of seeing large quantities of state of the art tooling and shiny factory floors for the money, they saw the beaten up shed that was blackpool, and bob standing there with a screwdriver in his hand.
excellent explanation, smolensky bought a couple of sheds with a couple of daves and bobs, and tried to turn it into the Lamborghini industrial complex.TVR wasn't a car producer, it was a kit car producer. Let me explain.
If you want to mass produce cars like the russian, you need expensive tooling, shiny clean high mantenance factories and large numbers of workers specialising in their own little bit of the car. Someone who spends their life getting very good at sticking a wingmirror on. Big overheads but superbly produced cars with great attention to detail trying to step the tightrope of economies of scale.
Instead TVR had bob. Bob was a man who could build a kit car from scratch. Go to any kit car show and you will find bob. I saw him last year at stoneleigh. He was standing in front of an immaculate GT40 with a LS7 engine in. I can build that for you in any colour for £50K he said. I was very tempted.
I suspect the blackpool factory, was a factory full of enthusiastic bobs harnessed and sometimes pushed to the limit by the management. The cars came out like kit cars but in a way that could not be achieved by the russians model. The Russian thought he had bought a car factory. What he didn't realise is that he hadn't bought a factory at all with his money, he had bought the loyalty of a number of bobs which he then squandered. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the accountants went round the factory and instead of seeing large quantities of state of the art tooling and shiny factory floors for the money, they saw the beaten up shed that was blackpool, and bob standing there with a screwdriver in his hand.
One more point for Mr Wheeler.Cotic said:
Why? So they can sell marked-up Ford engines to him?
No, so they could help them implement, calibrate and certify complete drivetrains including the electronics that make them work. With a portfolio including supercharged V6 and V8 engines, active electronic diffs etc. - and in the knowledge that Jaguar could never market a hardcore sports car weighing close to 1 tonne rather than 1,600 kg+ to their customer base, this seems like a natural fit much like BMW/Wiessmann. 
.V8 GRF said:
Actually I've just done a bit of Googling and BMW did make a twin Turbo diesel at one point and put it in a car called the 745 so probably a car/engine available in Europe but not here.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0906dp_bmw_...
With 330 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque it wouldn't have been a slouch either.
Thanks for clearing that up. for me. Robmarriott too!http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0906dp_bmw_...
With 330 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque it wouldn't have been a slouch either.
julian64 said:
I suspect the blackpool factory, was a factory full of enthusiastic bobs harnessed and sometimes pushed to the limit by the management. The cars came out like kit cars but in a way that could not be achieved by the russians model. The Russian thought he had bought a car factory. What he didn't realise is that he hadn't bought a factory at all with his money, he had bought the loyalty of a number of bobs which he then squandered. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the accountants went round the factory and instead of seeing large quantities of state of the art tooling and shiny factory floors for the money, they saw the beaten up shed that was blackpool, and bob standing there with a screwdriver in his hand.
Brilliant, and I daresay pretty accurate too.The world is a far worse place for knowing that no more of these wonderfully outrageous Bob-tweaked rockets will appear on the new car market.
300bhp/ton said:
eh? The AJ8 is a Jaguar engine and never had anything to do with Ford.
Apart from the fact that it was developed under Ford ownership, and remains built by Ford at Bridgend, then yes, you're right. And IIRC the intellectual property rights for the engine are owned by Ford too.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff