Tyres. Do you go premium?
Discussion
I find it hard to believe that a post about tyres has deteriorated into a discussion on sticking to the speed limits. I do not advocate that drivers should be breaking these arbitrary limits with little consistency about how and where they are applied, but this has nothing to do with what tyres you use.
On the tyre debate. There is some shocking cheap rubbish out there that should be banned, there are also some tyres that you could call mid range in terms of price that perform well (Falken, Avon, Hancook, veridestein etc). There are also some expensive tyres that can perfrom quite poorly. I have had experience of Michelins (don't know the particular model) being very poor for wet grip both recently and 10 years ago. personally I would rather pay £150 - £180 a corner for the XKR for a falken that £300 for a P zero. In the long run it may be false economy as it does appear that whilst both offer similar grip levels the P zero seems to last longer.
Similarly on the family bus it runs veridestein and not conti's or bridgestone etc.
On the tyre debate. There is some shocking cheap rubbish out there that should be banned, there are also some tyres that you could call mid range in terms of price that perform well (Falken, Avon, Hancook, veridestein etc). There are also some expensive tyres that can perfrom quite poorly. I have had experience of Michelins (don't know the particular model) being very poor for wet grip both recently and 10 years ago. personally I would rather pay £150 - £180 a corner for the XKR for a falken that £300 for a P zero. In the long run it may be false economy as it does appear that whilst both offer similar grip levels the P zero seems to last longer.
Similarly on the family bus it runs veridestein and not conti's or bridgestone etc.
Mr2Mike said:
Exactly how do you leave more braking distance in an emergency situation (e.g. pedestrian running out in front of your car)?
You drive at a speed which allows you to stop before the hazard - if there are too many pedestrians around to track you just slow down a bit to give yourself more time to observe. That's what I was taught by the police.Or you do what everyone really does and ignores the risk and blames the pedestrian for being stupid enough to run in front of a moving car.
At 30 mph a pedestrian can step off the kerb in front of a car faster than I can take in what he's doing and react to it my moving my foot to the brake. Tyre grip doesn't come in to it as he's hit already.
Sure, if he walks in front of me slowly enough then I'll start to brake, and if we get the timing just right we'll get to a situation where having better tyres would mean the difference between getting hit and getting shouted at, but then you'd have the same difference in braking distance in a van, or in the wet, or if you were checking your mirrors or not, or anyone one of a hundred other factors which make the difference between injury or no injury.
Getting back on topic:
Better tyres are just a matter of cost, and yes, saving money does increase risk in extreme circumstances. But those circumstances are rare. Rare enough that the "premium tyre only" people are happy with just a set of premium tyres, rather than the best possible tyre. No one on here is suggesting that we should all be running cut slicks all summer just in case a pedestrian runs in front of them, because it's silly.
Yet "premium" tyres have a range of grip levels which overlaps "budget" tyres, and prices for all of them are in no way linked to the grip available, or even the type of grip available. It's not even like there is any kind of definition as to what "premium", "mid-range" and "budget" tyres are, other than in terms of marketing.
This isn't a discussion on whether we should only fit tyres with "traction AA" stamped on the side, it's a discusion about whether it should have "Michelin" stamped on the side.
Just purchased a set of Goodyear Asymmetric 2s. I bought my car to enjoy driving again after my diseasal Mondeo, but it also has to ferry my family about so I'm buying the tyres that seem to sit at the top of all the tyre tests for the last couple of years especially for wet weather performance.
I can't stand cheap tyres on anything, even the missus' £200 Corolla got a set of mid rangers when they needed doing. Even those were s
te and I wished I had spent a bit more!
I can't stand cheap tyres on anything, even the missus' £200 Corolla got a set of mid rangers when they needed doing. Even those were s
te and I wished I had spent a bit more!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=560_T8CqKaE&fea...
Admittedly not the MOST scientific test, but I got to do as many checks on each of the tyres as I possibly could before and after the test. It gives you some sort of idea of impact speed of a premium vs budget.
Later the same day we got to hoon around in some 1 series with premiums on the front and budgets on the back, in the wet. It was great fun, not sure I'd want it for the road though.
Admittedly not the MOST scientific test, but I got to do as many checks on each of the tyres as I possibly could before and after the test. It gives you some sort of idea of impact speed of a premium vs budget.
Later the same day we got to hoon around in some 1 series with premiums on the front and budgets on the back, in the wet. It was great fun, not sure I'd want it for the road though.
I go with what most people class as a decent "mid range" brand - In fact I have never change my brand - been buying Kumho since my first car and have always liked the way they perform. I have tried Continentals once which were good but no better than Kumho and around £30 a corner more money - I certainly wouldn't go with any cheapo "never heard of them" makes - which there seem to be loads of these days. I tend to rotate my tyres and change all 4 at once so a brand like kumho for me is cost effective.
I splashed out on some Michelins for the Focus a while back. They handle and perform better than any other tyre I've had on the car, but they wear at a tremendous rate. I haven't kept an exact record of how long ago they were fitted, but my gut feeling is that they're wearing the tread down quicker than the Kumhos I had previously.
I'd love to comment on the Toyo T1Rs on the TVR, but that hasn't moved for 18 months.
I'd love to comment on the Toyo T1Rs on the TVR, but that hasn't moved for 18 months.
I'm very price concsious when buying tyres but not at the expense of quality. I.e. I'd generally go for the cheapest out of the Michelin/Goodyear/Continental/Pirelli/Bridgestone bunch. I got a very good price on a full set of Goodyear Eagle F1 A2s. I got a full set for a smidge more than a pair of Bridgestone rears.
I look at reviews when I buy tyres and normally go for the top end of the mid-range brands. I have had 4 Conti SC2's on our Mondeo ST estate and they are down to 3mm after 11k miles of average driving.
I'm looking for something a little harder wearing this time but have narrowed it down to Uniroyal Rainsport 2's and Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas.
I'm looking for something a little harder wearing this time but have narrowed it down to Uniroyal Rainsport 2's and Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas.
Captain Muppet said:
Better tyres are just a matter of cost, and yes, saving money does increase risk in extreme circumstances. But those circumstances are rare. Rare enough that the "premium tyre only" people are happy with just a set of premium tyres, rather than the best possible tyre.
Those circumstance are an everyday occurrence on the M25! On a Micra used to nip through town twice a week to sainsburys I would happily fit Linglongs because the risk is so low. Get the right tool for the job. Its difficult to quantify which is a good tyre though. Reviews are useless. Proper tests in the magazines rate the tyres when new and on one model of car, how do they compare half worn or on different cars? Etc.
HustleRussell said:
carefully selected 'mid-range' or even budget tyres, myself. I've not bought a 'bad' tyre yet with this method.
Me too - although IME there isn't much difference in price between very cheap tyres and Kumhos.As long as you drive within your own capabilities and the capabilities of your car you should be fine. Tyres are ONE element which contributes towards road safety (and not even the main element).
Theoretically it is possible to drive around with completely bald tyres, you will not explode in a ball of flames.
I always put premium tyres on my cars, however the last car I bought came with some terrible cheapo rubbish, which I plan to wear out as quickly as possible and then replace with something better.
The difference between the two cars and tyres now is huge.
My 1 series has 225s on the back and they're Pirelli Cinturatos, which I run with 2psi more than standard (seems to be optimum).
My Z4M has 255s on the back and are made by Accelera.
In the dry, the Acceleras are ok and have far more grip than the 1 series on its Pirellis, but throw in some wet roads and the tables are turned and the Acceleras give up hopelessly easily. I've had powerslides in 5th gear at only 2,500rpm on some slightly greasy roads in the Z4. The difference between these utter rubbish tyres and premium tyres is massive.
The difference between the two cars and tyres now is huge.
My 1 series has 225s on the back and they're Pirelli Cinturatos, which I run with 2psi more than standard (seems to be optimum).
My Z4M has 255s on the back and are made by Accelera.
In the dry, the Acceleras are ok and have far more grip than the 1 series on its Pirellis, but throw in some wet roads and the tables are turned and the Acceleras give up hopelessly easily. I've had powerslides in 5th gear at only 2,500rpm on some slightly greasy roads in the Z4. The difference between these utter rubbish tyres and premium tyres is massive.
I've got mid rangers on the 350Z (I can almost hear the gasps from here).
Set of Avons on the front, Falkens on the back (they were already on). I got a good deal on the Avons.
I may well run a 350Z but that does not mean I am made of money, either, nor do I subscribe to the fact that premium tyres (which are £100 more expensive EACH) are really as much better as some would have me believe.
At the end of the day, I do like to hoon but I don't get anywhere near the limits of the car (not exactly wise on a public road), and most of the time, I'm taking it quite easy.
Yes I know a child (bless em) could run out in front of my car, but its unlikely in my view, given my fairly restrained driving style around built up areas, that it would make a huge difference to the outcome should little jonny decide they want to acquaint themselves with the undertray of my car.
I am also not a driving god who can detect slight differences in tyres; and in most cases, the differences are quite slight, I don't care what anybody says. Obviously the difference between a very poor ditchfinder and a top rate premium tyre are going to be very noticeable, however, in most cases thats not what we're talking about here, we're talking in many cases the difference between perfectly competent mid range tyres and top of the range branded stuff.
I wonder if those who would advocate never going for anything but the most expensive tyres, also buys the most expensive upgraded brake kits and suspension systems for their cars also, because lets face it, I dare say the majority of equipment installed on most cars "gets the job done" rather than is absolutely optimal for the type of driving many PHers apparently routinely engage in.
No, I'm quite happy with my tyres. If they weren't good enough, they'd be illegal, surely in this Health and Safety obsessed nation of ours? I'll whisper this quietly, but I've even used some "ditchfinders" that proved OK in real world us - not saying I'd buy them again, but if they're already on the car, and legal, why not?
Set of Avons on the front, Falkens on the back (they were already on). I got a good deal on the Avons.
I may well run a 350Z but that does not mean I am made of money, either, nor do I subscribe to the fact that premium tyres (which are £100 more expensive EACH) are really as much better as some would have me believe.
At the end of the day, I do like to hoon but I don't get anywhere near the limits of the car (not exactly wise on a public road), and most of the time, I'm taking it quite easy.
Yes I know a child (bless em) could run out in front of my car, but its unlikely in my view, given my fairly restrained driving style around built up areas, that it would make a huge difference to the outcome should little jonny decide they want to acquaint themselves with the undertray of my car.
I am also not a driving god who can detect slight differences in tyres; and in most cases, the differences are quite slight, I don't care what anybody says. Obviously the difference between a very poor ditchfinder and a top rate premium tyre are going to be very noticeable, however, in most cases thats not what we're talking about here, we're talking in many cases the difference between perfectly competent mid range tyres and top of the range branded stuff.
I wonder if those who would advocate never going for anything but the most expensive tyres, also buys the most expensive upgraded brake kits and suspension systems for their cars also, because lets face it, I dare say the majority of equipment installed on most cars "gets the job done" rather than is absolutely optimal for the type of driving many PHers apparently routinely engage in.
No, I'm quite happy with my tyres. If they weren't good enough, they'd be illegal, surely in this Health and Safety obsessed nation of ours? I'll whisper this quietly, but I've even used some "ditchfinders" that proved OK in real world us - not saying I'd buy them again, but if they're already on the car, and legal, why not?
Captain Muppet said:
Mr2Mike said:
Exactly how do you leave more braking distance in an emergency situation (e.g. pedestrian running out in front of your car)?
You drive at a speed which allows you to stop before the hazard - if there are too many pedestrians around to track you just slow down a bit to give yourself more time to observe. That's what I was taught by the police.It's all very well trying to sound superior with your advice, but it simply isn't practical to drive at speeds that allow you to avoid any possible hazard. Driving is a balance of risks, and you modulate speed to minimise those risks within reason, but you can not possibly eliminate all risk without traffic virtually grinding to a halt.
otolith said:
When replacing other consumables with a potential impact on performance and safety - brake pads and discs, dampers, that kind of thing - do people have the same opinion on OEM spec versus cheap as possible as they do for tyres?
Personally I'd probably just get OEM parts, although I've had pattern (sp?) parts before on other cars that were just as good. OEM brake pads and discs won't be the very best you can get for that vehicle though, I wouldn't have thought in the vast majority of cases.For the S2K I have just got a nice new set of Bridgestones, because that is what Honda recommends (did consider Eagle F1s which are supposed to work well with the car, but.....).
The Merc doesn't generally get driven at 10/10ths, and when it does, it is very predictable, because it is big and heavy. It came with Contis, but when these need replacing, I'll probably go with Barums or whatever other mid-range tyre I've heard of is in stock.
The Merc doesn't generally get driven at 10/10ths, and when it does, it is very predictable, because it is big and heavy. It came with Contis, but when these need replacing, I'll probably go with Barums or whatever other mid-range tyre I've heard of is in stock.
TheRacingSnake said:
My local mechanic refuses to fit cheap tyres. He even puts bridgestones on his mothers car.
It's the only thing keeping you on the road.
The only thing keeping the car on the road is the Driver. As long as he doesn't exceed either his or the car's ability he won't leave the road, regardless of the type of tyres.It's the only thing keeping you on the road.
Given that this is PH I'm surprised that people don't seem to be able to gauge the limits of their tyres (relative to road conditions)./ Over the last 15 years I've locked up once and wheelspun accidentally once.
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