RE: No Lotus at Paris motor show
Discussion
Pistonwot said:
Everyone I know considers Lotus as being synonymous with low cost, lightweight, sports biased cars.
New Lotus is none of these things.
A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish and the sportiest Lotus (Exige) weighs in at a staggering 1420 kg before extras. If you were in the market for a lightweight sportscar how could you get excited about it having a wheezy Toyota engine unless economy, attaining MPG and reliability are your thing?
The new Lotus is blatantly copying what all the other manufacturers are doing.
Bla bla bla.....New Lotus is none of these things.
A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish and the sportiest Lotus (Exige) weighs in at a staggering 1420 kg before extras. If you were in the market for a lightweight sportscar how could you get excited about it having a wheezy Toyota engine unless economy, attaining MPG and reliability are your thing?
The new Lotus is blatantly copying what all the other manufacturers are doing.
Some rubbish is being spoken about Lotus, their cars and the pricing.
2 Things ->
1. People need to get out of the time warp and appreciate inflation is real, and car costs must go up accordingly. Sure a Mk1 Elise used to be under £20k, so did an Impreza WRX and my Esprit was £13k in 1983, I think my dad paid about £6k for his first house a few years before that.........
2. People want more, more performance, more economy and more reliability, outsourcing engine / drivetrain is smart and cost effective and enables Lotus to concentrate their resources on what they are great at - chassis, handling & dynamics.
How is the new Exige anything less than a complete performance bargain compared to all similar price competition?
Pistonwot said:
A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish
which is the same, adjusted for inflation, as it ever did. Pistonwot said:
and the sportiest Lotus (Exige) weighs in at a staggering 1420 kg before extras
1176 kg actually. But what's 250 kg between friends?Pistonwot said:
If you were in the market for a lightweight sportscar how could you get excited about it having a wheezy Toyota engine unless economy, attaining MPG and reliability are your thing?
Er... have you actually driven one? Wheezy is not a word usually attributed to any of these cars. And most would agree that reliability is the one thing lotus historically lacked. Now it's really very good. Pistonwot said:
heavyweight, dynamic pudding.
Autocar said:
Only fantasy machines like the Atom and the Mono have what it takes to keep the Lotus Exige S from the top. It's that good
Much as I hate to let the facts get in the way of your rant, I'd suggest you check a few next time. Pistonheads is a car fans / fanatics website
If people posting and writing and making endless and in parts worthless comments you should support lotus not with words but buying
In 96 when the else was released it could be had for 23k ~26k'ish amounts .... A little down payment and loan most people on any mediocre salary could have bought that with perhaps some sacrifice on 'pints of beer' or 'fags' ..... If you love cars, or in this case you like/love/wish to support the mark, then you would have bought
The else mk1 was a great car. Lotus have cars out now which are great and life is about compromise ....
It's just a shame reading the endless banter when people should support the mark by buying ..... Buying these instead of the endless swathes of mundane cars churned out by the crap car manufacturers ....
Pistonheads is a car fans / fanatics website
If people posting and writing and making endless and in parts worthless comments you should support lotus not with words but buying
In 96 when the else was released it could be had for 23k ~26k'ish amounts .... A little down payment and loan most people on any mediocre salary could have bought that with perhaps some sacrifice on 'pints of beer' or 'fags' ..... If you love cars, or in this case you like/love/wish to support the mark, then you would have bought
The else mk1 was a great car. Lotus have cars out now which are great and life is about compromise ....
It's just a shame reading the endless banter when people should support the mark by buying ..... Buying these instead of the endless swathes of mundane cars churned out by the crap car manufacturers ....
So, would they actually lose sales by no turning up? How many orders did they get in Paris 2 years ago? Also, how many orders did they get at Goodwood?
Another thing, won't the absence of Lotus serve to benefit its competitors?
Either way, it's a shame Lotus decided not to attend. Could have been a good time to show the public their post-Bahar new direction. A chance to remind everyone what Lotus is really about. Instead they seem to be paranoid about angering their new investors.
A missed opportunity I think.
Another thing, won't the absence of Lotus serve to benefit its competitors?
Either way, it's a shame Lotus decided not to attend. Could have been a good time to show the public their post-Bahar new direction. A chance to remind everyone what Lotus is really about. Instead they seem to be paranoid about angering their new investors.
A missed opportunity I think.
schrodinger said:
Pistonwot said:
A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish
which is the same, adjusted for inflation, as it ever did.Hellbound said:
So, would they actually lose sales by no turning up? How many orders did they get in Paris 2 years ago? Also, how many orders did they get at Goodwood?
Another thing, won't the absence of Lotus serve to benefit its competitors?
Either way, it's a shame Lotus decided not to attend. Could have been a good time to show the public their post-Bahar new direction. A chance to remind everyone what Lotus is really about. Instead they seem to be paranoid about angering their new investors.
A missed opportunity I think.
I do wonder whether they just don't have time. Goodwood will have done them a world of good - they didn't just have a great stand, they stole the whole show. There were a fair few Evoras in the car park too so clearly someone's buying them. They'll have taken a fair few orders off the back of that.Another thing, won't the absence of Lotus serve to benefit its competitors?
Either way, it's a shame Lotus decided not to attend. Could have been a good time to show the public their post-Bahar new direction. A chance to remind everyone what Lotus is really about. Instead they seem to be paranoid about angering their new investors.
A missed opportunity I think.
However, I do reckon they could have had a local dealership-backed stand at Paris to show off their current range. Maybe though they realised that after last year's grandiose unveiling of five new models, at least two of which probably won't happen, turning up with a subdued stand full of cars people had already seen would have generated a lot of negative comment while not turning up at all wouldn't suggest anything at all.
British Beef said:
Bla bla bla.....
Some rubbish is being spoken about Lotus, their cars and the pricing.
2 Things ->
1. People need to get out of the time warp and appreciate inflation is real, and car costs must go up accordingly. Sure a Mk1 Elise used to be under £20k, so did an Impreza WRX and my Esprit was £13k in 1983, I think my dad paid about £6k for his first house a few years before that.........
2. People want more, more performance, more economy and more reliability, outsourcing engine / drivetrain is smart and cost effective and enables Lotus to concentrate their resources on what they are great at - chassis, handling & dynamics.
How is the new Exige anything less than a complete performance bargain compared to all similar price competition?
First of all I adore Lotus and what they stand/stood for, thats why I have owned and driven a few.Some rubbish is being spoken about Lotus, their cars and the pricing.
2 Things ->
1. People need to get out of the time warp and appreciate inflation is real, and car costs must go up accordingly. Sure a Mk1 Elise used to be under £20k, so did an Impreza WRX and my Esprit was £13k in 1983, I think my dad paid about £6k for his first house a few years before that.........
2. People want more, more performance, more economy and more reliability, outsourcing engine / drivetrain is smart and cost effective and enables Lotus to concentrate their resources on what they are great at - chassis, handling & dynamics.
How is the new Exige anything less than a complete performance bargain compared to all similar price competition?
but,,, they have strayed down the wrong path and it shows.
1 All I see with new Lotus is a severe and obvious lack of 'percieved value' and not much actual value for money (ie at night the Evora interior light shines through the thin roof)
What is it new Lotus brings to the table that clearly outshines the other manufacturers offerings?
2 That is precisely what the Monopoly suppliers are for, mass produced tat to appease those who dont know any better.
Lotus was about making proper sports cars for the rest of us who wanted real drivers cars that were joyous to drive,,, until recently.
The Exige is a fair attempt but it is simply nowhere near the quality of a Porsche 911, it is however nearly the same price.
Why would you choose the Exige over the Porsche?
I would not buy a new Lotus because of 2 things that are as anti-Lotus as its possible to get; 1 the inane tat. 2 Traction control.
Funny you mention traction control, my mate had a beautiful Elise that was written off on a wet road when he took a corner. He loved the car and he was caught out one evening after a long day at work of which he does many.
Had he had traction control, quietly working in the background he would still have the pretty car and wouldn't have the injuries he sustained.
He would also not be driving the dull silver 'tat' from elsewhere that he currently is.
Lotus have now put it in the Exige S, a car that is VERY quick, for very good reason. But for die-hards you can turn it off. Funny that...
Had he had traction control, quietly working in the background he would still have the pretty car and wouldn't have the injuries he sustained.
He would also not be driving the dull silver 'tat' from elsewhere that he currently is.
Lotus have now put it in the Exige S, a car that is VERY quick, for very good reason. But for die-hards you can turn it off. Funny that...
schrodinger said:
Pistonwot said:
A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish
which is the same, adjusted for inflation, as it ever did. Pistonwot said:
and the sportiest Lotus (Exige) weighs in at a staggering 1420 kg before extras
1176 kg actually. But what's 250 kg between friends?Pistonwot said:
If you were in the market for a lightweight sportscar how could you get excited about it having a wheezy Toyota engine unless economy, attaining MPG and reliability are your thing?
Er... have you actually driven one? Wheezy is not a word usually attributed to any of these cars. And most would agree that reliability is the one thing lotus historically lacked. Now it's really very good. Pistonwot said:
heavyweight, dynamic pudding.
Autocar said:
Only fantasy machines like the Atom and the Mono have what it takes to keep the Lotus Exige S from the top. It's that good
Much as I hate to let the facts get in the way of your rant, I'd suggest you check a few next time. 1 Fair enough, but its not simply the cost thats changed. They did comprehensively ruin the dynamics with a lot of weight. Go drive an early car.
2 No it doesnt, it weighs 1420kg gross.
3 Yes a lot, it is subjective though I guess. I was left underwhelmed and more than a bit dissapointed.
(To be fair though, I havent driven the new v6 one and expect it will be faster. If I try it that is, nanny has put me off thus far because I really cant be bothered with the intrusiveness)
IF you want reliable then go buy a Toyota and stop ruining Lotus by turning them into a Toyota too. I didnt buy any of my past Lotus for their reliability, in fact I didnt even consider it for a moment.
Try a Radical then, that IS a no nonsense lightweight sportscar chum, Lotus is NOT all that regardless of how easily impressed you are.
Johnboy Mac said:
Completely different jobs & different people.
Building and preparing cars for a motorshow takes away from everyday activities and brings deadlines into the equation that are not necessarily in line with normal product development. Also, from my experience with Lotus at Frankfurt last year, there were folk from all sorts of departments involved for quite some time. Plus, it must have cost a fortune - do you know how much hotels near the conference centre charge during the show? Extortion springs to mind.Perhaps larger companies can afford to have dedicated teams for shows, but this is Lotus.
I also recall when they brought their five new concepts to Paris two years ago that many said they should then go away and develop the cars and only come back when they were ready to sell. Let them just get on with things...
Pistonwot said:
They did comprehensively ruin the dynamics with a lot of weight. Go drive an early car.
Is this right? I'm no asperger-mong, but I thought the S1 was actually around 725Kg and the S3 has a 875Kg kerb weight, which includes a 75Kg passenger and 30Kg full tank of fuel. 45Kg gained? Happy to be proven wrong if this is not the case.They just started with the new Exige V6 yet they are not going to the Paris Autosalon to give it a push? Think of all the magazine or general news coverage...they should go there and promote the Exige Roadster V6 paddle shift for the international market..for heavens sake China and their communist journalist would be snapping shots all over the event.....loss
Pistonwot said:
2 No it doesnt, it weighs 1420kg gross.
It really doesn't. I suspect the number you are looking at is "gross vehicle weight", which is the maximum allowed weight for the car when fully laden.For instance, have a look at these figures for the Boxster - a Boxster does not weigh 1645kg, the figure you want is "unladen weight".
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasi...
Drclarke said:
Have you started planning the celebration party your going to throw if Lotus go completely bankrupt?
I love Lotus, and hope they continue. But then I hoped the same for Saab and TVR.Unfortunately hope is often not enough. Just because I am a realist, and cannot fool myself into thinking that what is clearly very bad news is somehow promising, does not mean that I am not saddened by Lotus' situation.
Pistonwot said:
The Exige is a fair attempt but it is simply nowhere near the quality of a Porsche 911, it is however nearly the same price.
Why would you choose the Exige over the Porsche?
1. The 911 is 35% more expensive.Why would you choose the Exige over the Porsche?
2. I don't know about the 991, but driving the 997 didn't make me want to own one. Too much of a GT car, too compromised by the need to be great at commuting. Very nice, but I'd rather have a four pot Exige let alone the V6.
Has anyone considered what this says about the Paris Motorshow? I think it is rapidly becoming much less important as the French economy and car-buying market goes down the pan. Beijing is the new centre of gravity - whether we like it or not. I think that Lotus, who have certainly got all the problems being discussed in this blog as well as a few more not generally known outside Hethel, have twigged earlier than most that Paris is no longer relevant.
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