RE: No Lotus at Paris motor show

[Grodecki]

A little birdie in the family tells me the new management are rather angry at some of Danny's company spending... talking 150k+ on redoing a rented property, and are refusing to pay up, leaving rather a lot of builders and electricians rather angry with him and Lotus.

[Captain Muppet]

Pistonwot said:

1 All I see with new Lotus is a severe and obvious lack of 'percieved value' and not much actual value for money (ie at night the Evora interior light shines through the thin roof)
What is it new Lotus brings to the table that clearly outshines the other manufacturers offerings?

Well for a start Lotus brings exterior roof lighting at no extra cost, and they certainly aren't wasting time, money or mass on engineering a lamp shade above the interior lamp because that would be insane.

Mental thing to complain about.

Pistonwot said:

(To be fair though, I havent driven the new v6 one and expect it will be faster. If I try it that is, nanny has put me off thus far because I really cant be bothered with the intrusiveness)

It must be pretty intrusive traction control to annoy you when you aren't even in the car. Shame really as you need to be in the car to turn it off.

[British Beef]

Pistonwot, your comments have been weighed and measured, and have beend found wanting!

Opinion is one thing (like aholes - we all have one) however stating incorrect facts and figures is begging for criticism, educate yourself first before posting rubbish!

[schrodinger]

Pistonwot said:

schrodinger said:

Pistonwot said:

A base level no spec Elise costs £30,000ish

which is the same, adjusted for inflation, as it ever did.

Pistonwot said:

and the sportiest Lotus (Exige) weighs in at a staggering 1420 kg before extras

1176 kg actually. But what's 250 kg between friends?

Pistonwot said:

If you were in the market for a lightweight sportscar how could you get excited about it having a wheezy Toyota engine unless economy, attaining MPG and reliability are your thing?

Er... have you actually driven one? Wheezy is not a word usually attributed to any of these cars. And most would agree that reliability is the one thing lotus historically lacked. Now it's really very good.

Pistonwot said:

heavyweight, dynamic pudding.

Autocar said:

Only fantasy machines like the Atom and the Mono have what it takes to keep the Lotus Exige S from the top. It's that good

Much as I hate to let the facts get in the way of your rant, I'd suggest you check a few next time.

Its not a rant its an opinion and I disagree with yours on almost every level.

1 Fair enough, but its not simply the cost thats changed. They did comprehensively ruin the dynamics with a lot of weight. Go drive an early car.

2 No it doesnt, it weighs 1420kg gross.

3 Yes a lot, it is subjective though I guess. I was left underwhelmed and more than a bit dissapointed.
(To be fair though, I havent driven the new v6 one and expect it will be faster. If I try it that is, nanny has put me off thus far because I really cant be bothered with the intrusiveness)

IF you want reliable then go buy a Toyota and stop ruining Lotus by turning them into a Toyota too. I didnt buy any of my past Lotus for their reliability, in fact I didnt even consider it for a moment.

Try a Radical then, that IS a no nonsense lightweight sportscar chum, Lotus is NOT all that regardless of how easily impressed you are.

1. I have driven an early car. I have driven a current car. The current car is better. the early car is lighter, but also slower and trickier at the limit. The quality of the new car is way higher. There is simply no value for money comparison. New wins.

2. 1176. As confirmed earlier in the thread.

3. The exige 4 cylinder revs to 8500 rpm. Hardly wheezy. It is very fast but because it has low torque there's less shove in tr back. You are unlike most buyers if you don't care at all about reliability. Lotus is never ever goign to be Toyots, trust me.

4. A radical isn't lighter if you factor in the weight of the trailer and range rover to get it to the track ;-) Seriously, great car BUT completely different proposition.

ps "chum"

Edited by schrodinger on Wednesday 18th July 11:09

[schrodinger]

Oh PS one more thing. Stabiilty control wil soon be , I think, mandatory on all non-SVA cars.

Wikipedia said:

The European Parliament has also called for the accelerated introduction of ESC.[60] The European Commission has confirmed a proposal for the mandatory introduction of ESC on all new cars and commercial vehicle models sold in the EU from 2012, with all new cars being equipped by 2014.[61]

[B10]

Mr Pistonwtot
Where are you getting the gross weight figure from? Lotus, Honest John's website or another? Surprisingly some websites have incorrect information.

[otolith]

B10 said:

Mr Pistonwtot
Where are you getting the gross weight figure from? Lotus, Honest John's website or another? Surprisingly some websites have incorrect information.

He is looking at the wrong number:

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/lotus/lotus-exige-...



Kerb weight is what it weighs. Gross weight is the maximum allowable weight with passengers and luggage.

[Captain Muppet]

News on this from a newspaper:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/lotus_set_to_cut_m...

Seems pretty positive.

[originalgeezer]

Have to agree whole hearted with an earlier post, its damaging "not to be seen" even though the show's don't necessarily provide a measurable income ....

[Hellbound]

JonnyCRH said:

Has anyone considered what this says about the Paris Motorshow? I think it is rapidly becoming much less important as the French economy and car-buying market goes down the pan. Beijing is the new centre of gravity - whether we like it or not. I think that Lotus, who have certainly got all the problems being discussed in this blog as well as a few more not generally known outside Hethel, have twigged earlier than most that Paris is no longer relevant.

But....out of Paris, Frankfurt and Geneva, Paris has the most attractive models and the most glamour.

Not that I turn into some sort of unstoppable pervert when I go to these things you understand.

[Pistonwot]

schrodinger said:

1. I have driven an early car. I have driven a current car. The current car is better. the early car is lighter, but also slower and trickier at the limit. The quality of the new car is way higher. There is simply no value for money comparison. New wins.

2. 1176. As confirmed earlier in the thread.

3. The exige 4 cylinder revs to 8500 rpm. Hardly wheezy. It is very fast but because it has low torque there's less shove in tr back. You are unlike most buyers if you don't care at all about reliability. Lotus is never ever goign to be Toyots, trust me.

4. A radical isn't lighter if you factor in the weight of the trailer and range rover to get it to the track ;-) Seriously, great car BUT completely different proposition.

Edited by schrodinger on Wednesday 18th July 11:09

Good god, how did you get out?
Youve missed the point again chum,,, here you go, I will spell it out for you in easily understood numb-skull, talky, talky, speak.

Im not supposing,,, I am out and out stating!
That IS why NEW-Lotus doesnt appeal to me anymore.
These ARE the reasons why I will not buy a new one unless they return to OLD-Lotus core beliefs. That is Lotus ETHOS,, get it?
Is that clear enough yet?
Do I have to draw a picture for you and in which colour of crayon?

So,,,,,,, you disagree,,, well dry your eyes petal.
Disagreeing is fair enough but it is also subjective,,, subjective to the point it is quantified with statistical data like sales data. SO it has been quantified for new-Lotus with poor sales,,,,
It would appear I reside in the same camp as all of the OTHER PEOPLE WHO WOULDNT BUY A NEW-LOTUS with ACTUAL cash money,,,

YOU, on the other hand, claim people should buy new-Lotus because new-Lotus is now a better car or something else similarly stupid.
Course it is, thats why so many people are lined up to buy one, because it is so good?

1 That will be why new-Lotus are presently selling so many cars is it,,, because they have got it right-on and now everyone wants a new-Lotus?
At which point do new-Lotus sales reflect your rediculous claim that new-Lotus are making a car people WANT?

2 Whatever, is yours full of Helium or anti-gravity or thin air possibly, or is it made out of Swizz cheese?

3 Go and drive a powerful, lightweight car. Then use that performance as a datum rather than the performance of a Fiesta TDI or a Corsa TDI(missing the e ous) "sport".

4 Dolt.
A simple but effective word that says everything so I dont have to.

I said go drive a Radical because when you do you can feel your senses come alive, the heart rate increases, mouth goes dry, vision wobbles and blurs etc so the effort vs reward is high.(look that up effort vs reward)

Humans experience specific sensations enhanced by adrenaline when learning under pressure. Its not an approach enjoyed by dummies who are out of their comfort zone and lacking the ability to back them up if and when it goes wrong.
That is what Traction control is for.
Common Traction control is intended to flatter these imbeciles and is comprehensively intrusive to those who drive cars so they can learn from the experience in order to become a better driver.
Not everyone drives a sportcar with the belief that women will throw their pussies at it and you will have a glovebox stuffed full of them,,,
Some of us still actually want a sportcar to be a sportcar so we can enjoy perfecting the art of driving it. We also accept the danger of this.

These are the type of people who historically buy Lotus.

So,, AGAIN, here we go,,,,
New-Lotus are diluting this ethos which is reflected by the poor sales.

That is why I feel new-Lotus are not doing so well.
The facts of the matter are Contrary to your belief that they have built a stunner that is everything that everybody wants in a car,,,,,,, x2

[JonnyCRH]

Hellbound said:

JonnyCRH said:

Has anyone considered what this says about the Paris Motorshow? I think it is rapidly becoming much less important as the French economy and car-buying market goes down the pan. Beijing is the new centre of gravity - whether we like it or not. I think that Lotus, who have certainly got all the problems being discussed in this blog as well as a few more not generally known outside Hethel, have twigged earlier than most that Paris is no longer relevant.

But....out of Paris, Frankfurt and Geneva, Paris has the most attractive models and the most glamour.

Not that I turn into some sort of unstoppable pervert when I go to these things you understand.

Glamour is dispensible in the cut-throat world of selling cars in a recession - if glamour ends up costing more than it earns (as it so often does, particularly in the world of Lotus under Dany Yeehaa).
If you are a pervert, either stoppable or not, you should try Beijing. It knocks Paris into a cocked pair of frilly knickers.

[Johnboy Mac]

AllNines said:

but this is Lotus.

No buts, this is Paris! Thus, the PH artical...

[Pistonwot]

Paris or Beijing or even both, I feel it wont matter all that much in the end.
Wherever they go new-Lotus will roll up with the same cars that have the same issues,,, so it is the same proposition.
What difference will the location of this proposition make to a buyer?

The issue still remains with the what.
The what(the car itself) is the thing stopping buyers from buying.