RE: Caterham: the future
Discussion
I definitely think there is a gap in the market for another Caterham '21' type of car, that car launched against the Elise S1 and there was only ever going to be one winner, he Ecoboost engines sound like a good option. A car with enclosed body work, about 250 hp per ton, for about £25k should sell well imo, styling will be the key, dynamics should be a given.
otolith said:
Frimley111R said:
Lotus never made any money out of the Elise/Exige so why try to copy them?
Did Lotus ever make any money out of the 7?I suspect the truth is closer to "Lotus made money out of the Elise/Exige and pissed it up the wall".
crafty1 said:
I definitely think there is a gap in the market for another Caterham '21' type of car, that car launched against the Elise S1 and there was only ever going to be one winner, he Ecoboost engines sound like a good option. A car with enclosed body work, about 250 hp per ton, for about £25k should sell well imo, styling will be the key, dynamics should be a given.
I know nothing about the costs of producing a Caterham 21 type car with a Ford Ecoboost 1 litre engine but I suspect to make a decent profit it needs to sell for at least £30k.Will we pay that?
The 21 was a good product but as others have said, the timing and brand of the Lotus Elise condemned it to history. For me, the styling was too retro but the 50 cars built had enthusiastic and happy owners - I suspect many still are!
Also as mentioned, the 21 had a tiny tooling and development budget - I know becuase I worked there at the time! Caterham easily spent less on the whole 21 project than Lotus probably did on brake development on the Elise!
As for the future, hopefully they will keep the cost down on the new car or else they won't get the volume they will need (versus the existing brands).
Also as mentioned, the 21 had a tiny tooling and development budget - I know becuase I worked there at the time! Caterham easily spent less on the whole 21 project than Lotus probably did on brake development on the Elise!
As for the future, hopefully they will keep the cost down on the new car or else they won't get the volume they will need (versus the existing brands).
sunsurfer said:
I know nothing about the costs of producing a Caterham 21 type car with a Ford Ecoboost 1 litre engine but I suspect to make a decent profit it needs to sell for at least £30k.
Will we pay that?
I don't know, but plenty of people consider 30k for a big engined hatchback to be "a bargain", so maybe.Will we pay that?
kambites said:
How well is the G40 road car selling?
No idea but that would seem to be the obvious yardstick for a new Caterham; it starts at £30k.TinyCappo said:
sunsurfer said:
Another engine for the entry level car could be the Fiat twinair.
Two fizzing cylinders being revved to the red line to get all 84hp should make one characterful engine sound.
not enough hp though. Two fizzing cylinders being revved to the red line to get all 84hp should make one characterful engine sound.
I've been musing over a genre of sports cars we no longer have. Small sports cars like the MG Midget, Triumph Spitfire, Fiat X1/9 etc. The fun in them is more about handling than power.
kambites said:
sunsurfer said:
I've been musing over a genre of sports cars we no longer have. Small sports cars like the MG Midget, Triumph Spitfire, Fiat X1/9 etc. The fun in them is more about handling than power.
There's been a few in recent(ish) years. Smart Roadster, Suzuki Cappuccino, etc. The Don of Croy said:
Ahem, and the MR2 ? Only stopped production in 2004. When new £18k on the road, or £22k with turbo fitted. Now available for peanuts.
Too heavy and too powerful. I think from the examples he was thinking under a tonne and under 100bhp. The mk3 MR2 does get close, though.
Actually, I think a sort of modern-day MG Midget would be a great addition to Caterham's range.
Base it on a slightly stretched (in both directions) Seven chassis. Say 800kg; 100bhp; simple manual roof that can be operated from the driver's seat, proper doors, windows, heater, decent boot, etc. and not much more. Reckon that could be sold at a profit for for 14k? Or even 17k?
Base it on a slightly stretched (in both directions) Seven chassis. Say 800kg; 100bhp; simple manual roof that can be operated from the driver's seat, proper doors, windows, heater, decent boot, etc. and not much more. Reckon that could be sold at a profit for for 14k? Or even 17k?
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th July 17:04
kambites said:
Actually, I think a sort of modern-day MG Midget would be a great addition to Caterham's range.
Base it on a slightly stretched (in both directions) Seven chassis. Say 800kg; 100bhp; simple manual roof that can be operated from the driver's seat, proper doors, windows, heater, etc. and not much more. Reckon that could be sold at a profit for for 14k?
I was thinking this.Base it on a slightly stretched (in both directions) Seven chassis. Say 800kg; 100bhp; simple manual roof that can be operated from the driver's seat, proper doors, windows, heater, etc. and not much more. Reckon that could be sold at a profit for for 14k?
I don't know the gender breakdown of seven owners but I suspect it may be 90% male. Would a smaller, less powerful but more comfortable Midget/Cappucino type car also appeal to the other 50% of drivers?
I'm not sure they could sell it for £14k though...
sunsurfer said:
TinyCappo said:
sunsurfer said:
Another engine for the entry level car could be the Fiat twinair.
Two fizzing cylinders being revved to the red line to get all 84hp should make one characterful engine sound.
not enough hp though. Two fizzing cylinders being revved to the red line to get all 84hp should make one characterful engine sound.
I've been musing over a genre of sports cars we no longer have. Small sports cars like the MG Midget, Triumph Spitfire, Fiat X1/9 etc. The fun in them is more about handling than power.
When forged standalone on standalone managment, hybrid turbo and 600cc injectors it helped to develop 120hp, Though it became too much of an animal. Its not going to be sub 800kg so that HP level is not going to cut it. needs to be minimum 80-90hp. but ideally basic pov spec at 120hp
Like the overwhelming majority of people on here I think Caterham are heading in the wrong track. I'd like to see them concentrate on what they know and build new and innovative interpretations of the 7 and the old mantra "adding lightness". Cars like the BAC mono are what Caterham should be creating. They have a fabulous niche and a world of knowhow about producing cars that people love driving. They have ZERO experience of producing refined road cars and that will be very evident in whatever it is they are hoping to produce for the road for 40-50k.
klivedrgar said:
They have ZERO experience of producing refined road cars and that will be very evident in whatever it is they are hoping to produce for the road for 40-50k.
I wanted a Caterham, but couldn't live with one, so I bought an Elise. Lotus were planning to vacate that niche with something further to the right on the Caterham-SLK continuum, so it made perfect sense for Caterham to expand into it. Who knows what the hell Lotus is going to do now, if anything. I think trying to make a refined road car would be a mistake, but a road car with just enough day to day usability to live with might not be.
Maybe Aston Martin could, in a fit of patriotism, give them the straight 6 turbo engine rights from the LMP1 car of 2011. Whether it was in a stretched and enlarged 7 platform or a mid-engined modified lotus platform it would certainly give them a new USP. And straight 6's need to make a come back!!!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff