RE: Peugeot 208 GTI gets go-ahead
Discussion
hotmelt said:
ajh38 said:
For all those who continually wish for a reborn 205 GTi please go and buy an entry level C1 and then give a further 5k to those chaps at c1gti.co.uk.
For everyone else harping on about a car that you have little or no experience of I urge you to be my worst nightmare, rock up at your local Peugeot dealer and ask for a test drive in a 1.2 208, preferably the mid spec active model which sits nicely on its 15s.
It's fun, somehow feels faster than the 1.4 and can corner. I got my girlfriend a 206 because I didn't want to drive a 207 (having owned a cc derivative) but in a years time there's no doubt that I will be getting her one of these. I prefer bigger cars but could drive one of these all day long.
You are comparing turbo-ed, benign handling tuned C1 with superbly honed, race car dynamics 205 GTi? For everyone else harping on about a car that you have little or no experience of I urge you to be my worst nightmare, rock up at your local Peugeot dealer and ask for a test drive in a 1.2 208, preferably the mid spec active model which sits nicely on its 15s.
It's fun, somehow feels faster than the 1.4 and can corner. I got my girlfriend a 206 because I didn't want to drive a 207 (having owned a cc derivative) but in a years time there's no doubt that I will be getting her one of these. I prefer bigger cars but could drive one of these all day long.
And I will rather trust in depth Autocar test of 208 than your few meters drive of 208. It may be trashable, but not as good as Fiesta, Polo, even Koreans.
Ecosseven said:
Try a Suzuki Swift Sport. Apparently the nearest thing to a 205 GTI currently on sale. £13,500 new or around £11k at 6 months old with very low miles.
As it was written in one test, it is a tool rather than a weapon. And 205 was a weapon, and that is one of the reasons Peugeot should have not mentioned it when announcing 208 Gti.anyone else think the front looks like the Ermahgerd meme??
imagine the sales ad! . . . . ." the new Peugeot 208 GTI a car that makes you Ermahgerd so much we designed the front end on it" . . . (closing titles can be Ermahgerd girl holding up a model 208 GTI)
imagine the sales ad! . . . . ." the new Peugeot 208 GTI a car that makes you Ermahgerd so much we designed the front end on it" . . . (closing titles can be Ermahgerd girl holding up a model 208 GTI)
- its been a long morning and i've been gluing a lot of carpet tiles down so may be experienceing some fume related sideffects
New cars have as much feel as a light switch, its on, its off, its on, its off,,,, marvellous.
Thats the problem, the lack of feel that is engineered into them (read cheaper to build) endows them with an inability to react normally, driver input does not affect the cars in a normal manner.
My granny could most probably race a modern Supercar,,, easily,,,, and thats a nonsense, what is the point of it and where is the achievement?
The old 205GTI had an abundance of feel, the driver had at their disposal a lot of adjustability depending on ACTUAL driver input.
Try that in any one of these shockingly engineered objects, go try trail braking and learn to feel despair as nanny tells you off.
WE humans drove cars like the 205 and WE were a part of the process.
These new trollies remove human input entirely to hide pudding like dynamics.
Not to mention the use of electric parts (steering, throttle, etc) all without mechanical connection to ANYTHING absolutely removing the driver.
Speed alone does not a fun car make, there must be interaction.
Designers have forgotten this and are intent on removing human interaction (read fun) completely.
Why would anybody want that car, go get on the train if thats your level of interest in driving. You are a danger to everyone around you if youre that bored you dont even want to feel the car.
Could go a long way to explaining why road fatalities are so high too,
Lack of interest = Boredom = Dangerous Driving
Thats the problem, the lack of feel that is engineered into them (read cheaper to build) endows them with an inability to react normally, driver input does not affect the cars in a normal manner.
My granny could most probably race a modern Supercar,,, easily,,,, and thats a nonsense, what is the point of it and where is the achievement?
The old 205GTI had an abundance of feel, the driver had at their disposal a lot of adjustability depending on ACTUAL driver input.
Try that in any one of these shockingly engineered objects, go try trail braking and learn to feel despair as nanny tells you off.
WE humans drove cars like the 205 and WE were a part of the process.
These new trollies remove human input entirely to hide pudding like dynamics.
Not to mention the use of electric parts (steering, throttle, etc) all without mechanical connection to ANYTHING absolutely removing the driver.
Speed alone does not a fun car make, there must be interaction.
Designers have forgotten this and are intent on removing human interaction (read fun) completely.
Why would anybody want that car, go get on the train if thats your level of interest in driving. You are a danger to everyone around you if youre that bored you dont even want to feel the car.
Could go a long way to explaining why road fatalities are so high too,
Lack of interest = Boredom = Dangerous Driving
Pistonwot said:
Thats the problem, the lack of feel that is engineered into them (read cheaper to build) endows them with an inability to react normally, driver input does not affect the cars in a normal manner.
My granny could most probably race a modern Supercar,,, easily,,,, and thats a nonsense, what is the point of it and where is the achievement?
I suspect it's about lawsuits. If a car is in any way "challenging" to drive, it won't be long before some numpty with more enthusiasm than skill eventually stuffs it in some horrible way. And in today's world, personal responsibility plays second fiddle to safety nets. So if you screw up, it's always someone else's fault for making it possible for you to do so. When said numpty's car bites them in the bum and spits them backwards into the scenery, or worse, the first person to get dragged through the court would be the manufacturer.My granny could most probably race a modern Supercar,,, easily,,,, and thats a nonsense, what is the point of it and where is the achievement?
Audi were forced to recall the original Audi TT because it wasn't idiot proof at speed. No manufacturer with an ounce of sense would risk such a thing again.
May be the problem is that consumers in general have moved on and dont actually want to buy lightweight hardcore hot hatches. If you look at the Clio 200 Cup, they are pretty rare and certainly far outsold by say, the Mini Cooper S. Ditto the Megane Cup. Renault UK failed to shift its stock of R26R meganes, whereas the french batch sold out. Similarly, Honda offered a more hardcore Civic Type R in FN2 guise and sold about 1!! People knocked the FN2 for not being as pure as the old type Rs, but it sold in its thousands...
Peugeot has to make money and sadly it seems it has decided it can do this by producing a much less hardcore, but all around sporty hatch than we pistonheaders would like to see, on the basis that it will probably sell more of them.
For those of us running old 205 GTIs like myself its sad, but we have to face it that modern consumers like to be pampered by toys, gadgets and they want to be protected. Plus we are a lot larder than we used to be and wouldnt squeeze into a 205 sized car. Its called progress, but whether it is progress of the sort we like, is another matter entirely!!
Peugeot has to make money and sadly it seems it has decided it can do this by producing a much less hardcore, but all around sporty hatch than we pistonheaders would like to see, on the basis that it will probably sell more of them.
For those of us running old 205 GTIs like myself its sad, but we have to face it that modern consumers like to be pampered by toys, gadgets and they want to be protected. Plus we are a lot larder than we used to be and wouldnt squeeze into a 205 sized car. Its called progress, but whether it is progress of the sort we like, is another matter entirely!!
Edited by Bezza1969 on Wednesday 25th July 08:50
I love it when people slate the 207 GTI, I love it even more when I waste them away from the lights, down a country lane and on track days. Granted its not the most dynamic feeling car, mainly down to the electric power steering but turn the ESP off drive it like a hooligan and it's as good as any other hot hatch out there. The other thing is that hey are so easy to tune, stage 1 and 210 bhp 225 lbft 0-60 6.4 seconds. Whack in a modified fith gear ratio for £150 and your top end is close to 155. Stage 2 and 3 see 250/260 and 290 lbft which makes one very quick motor.
I love my Q car. :-))
I love my Q car. :-))
u697040 said:
I love it when people slate the 207 GTI, I love it even more when I waste them away from the lights, down a country lane and on track days. Granted its not the most dynamic feeling car, mainly down to the electric power steering but turn the ESP off drive it like a hooligan and it's as good as any other hot hatch out there. The other thing is that hey are so easy to tune, stage 1 and 210 bhp 225 lbft 0-60 6.4 seconds. Whack in a modified fith gear ratio for £150 and your top end is close to 155. Stage 2 and 3 see 250/260 and 290 lbft which makes one very quick motor.
I love my Q car. :-))
I'm amazed you get 210bhp from a stage one.I love my Q car. :-))
I'm even more amazed that is your first post in nearly 10 years. Best lurker ever.
u697040 said:
I love it when people slate the 207 GTI, I love it even more when I waste them away from the lights, down a country lane and on track days. Granted its not the most dynamic feeling car, mainly down to the electric power steering but turn the ESP off drive it like a hooligan and it's as good as any other hot hatch out there. The other thing is that hey are so easy to tune, stage 1 and 210 bhp 225 lbft 0-60 6.4 seconds. Whack in a modified fith gear ratio for £150 and your top end is close to 155. Stage 2 and 3 see 250/260 and 290 lbft which makes one very quick motor.
I love my Q car. :-))
Like someone else said earlier in the discussion, theres a lot more to hot hatches and a drivers car than just speed alone.I love my Q car. :-))
Sure, you can 'waste' people in your 207 GTI (yo!) but as you even admitted you'd be receiving very little feel and feedback from the car when doing so, effectively detatching yourself from the driving experience.
Fact is that 205 GTI's nowadays wouldn't keep up with a lot of modern stuff but that is irrelevant, because they offer so much feel, feedback and involvement which literally translates to 'fun' when driving.
Whilst not the pinnacle of hot hatch history, I enjoyed my 18 months of 207 RC (gti) ownership. It did everything well, never broke and was good at a couple of track days. It was never really outclassed and the following review was interesting.. had decent pace, and not just in a straight line.
"The lap times for Track & Race Car magazine’s circuit at Bruntingthorpe showed just what the combination of the Clio’s engine, handling and braking performance are capable of, posting a time of 1m 25.51 seconds. This was significantly quicker than the Civic Type-R (1m 26.97sec) and the 207 GTi (1m 27.03 sec) and over 2 seconds quicker than the Astra VXR (1m 27.89 sec) and the Corsa VXR (1m 27.75 sec)."
"The lap times for Track & Race Car magazine’s circuit at Bruntingthorpe showed just what the combination of the Clio’s engine, handling and braking performance are capable of, posting a time of 1m 25.51 seconds. This was significantly quicker than the Civic Type-R (1m 26.97sec) and the 207 GTi (1m 27.03 sec) and over 2 seconds quicker than the Astra VXR (1m 27.89 sec) and the Corsa VXR (1m 27.75 sec)."
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