RE: Is VW going to buy Lotus?

[cjb1]

+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.

E38Ross said:

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.

Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it.

[E38Ross]

cjb1 said:

+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.

E38Ross said:

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.

Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it.

You're kidding right? Have you seen an aventador or a murcielago or the balboni Gallardo etc?

[Captain Muppet]

cjb1 said:

+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.

E38Ross said:

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.

Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it.

I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?

[mrclav]

arkenphel said:

...Lamborghini. A slow erosion to soullessness as evidenced by Lambos getting progressively more spectacular, but also more uninteresting.

Have you actually experienced an Aventador? How anyone could say it is an uninteresting car is beyond me, in fact I would safely bet that any modern Lamborghini would attract just as much attention (and be drooled over) as an older one by the 'non-motorhead public' at large. The only reason one could find modern cars uninteresting is in a comparative sense with a favourable bias to the past masters but judged on its own terms a Aventador to me is just as interesting and outrageous as a Muria or a Countach would have been in the 60s and 70s.

For me, any super-car that is reliable enough to be used every day should not be branded 'soulless' and I always find that assertion in this context disingenuous. All cars by definition are machines that only exist because man made them primarily for the purpose of transportation. They are not sentient beings therefore how can they have a soul? Simple answer - they cannot. If they do, then following your logic do washing machines or computers have soul too? These things are also made by man and exist for their primary purposes (washing clothes and number calculation); however we would never debate whether any of those things have a soul or not!

[gofasterrosssco]

Its interesting that people think VW are stupid enough to take a brand (in this case Lotus) and strip away its USP? Maybe they will end up using VAG engines (generally not a bad thing) but why would they remove the ability for Lotus to produce exciting, light, small cars? The proviso I'm assuming is that they stop loosing money..

I guess in the likes of Lambo, they took a struggling company, pumped in ALOT of money, engineering and expertise in its own area (soft touch dashes?) and ended up with products that are still what, 90% of what a Lambo previously was, but a generally better, more accessible vehicle, that sells well, and keeps the brand alive.. Is that not what we'd like?

[900T-R]

Must say I was a bit underwhelmed with the Gallardo I drove on track (although it might well have been off colour), but from what I've read the Aventador is as bonkers as Lamborghini has ever been - except that Northern European folks like myself can now comfortably drive one, and the unwieldiness of yore has made way for handling that is among the very best within the segment.

I've been at Lamborghini's Sant' Agatha headquarters as an unannounced tourist and it was a much warmer, more human, less corporate, more er, Italian experience than seeing the Ferrari industrial complex a few hours before, too.

Much as I am left cold by their main product lines, as far as I'm concerned VAG can do a 'Lamborghini' with TVR any day of the week (I'd imagine they'd leave Lotus pretty much to its own devices as the engineering part of the business is doing quite nicely, they'd probably steer a bit of custom in their direction which could - as mentioned by another poster - even result in Audis with actual suspension, but they'd not want to drive other OEM customers away by making it an integral part of VAG engineering departments).

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

with respect, exactly what have Lotus got that VW does not already have?

People who can set up suspension so that a car handles well without fracturing your spine every time you go over a bump?

[Fire99]

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.

And how many VW bits make up their great empire? Is a Gallardo maybe related to an R8? What lies beneath the skin of modern Bentleys? Are they maybe a little corporate Audi and VW components?

I'm not saying these are bad cars. But Lotus builds highly specialist cars, going all mas market on the chassis, drive systems and suspension would IMO be at total odds with what a Lotus is and should be. You'd end up with the next Elise being based on a Polo with a Haldex AWD system and some boringly dull interior.

I agree with you. Modern day Lambo's are 'Better' cars in the sense that they are likely to be more reliable and better screwed together but the outrageousness has been tamed and relatively speaking, they are easy cars to drive. (Yep I've tried one).

That may mean they sell more, and no doubt to the VAG group, that makes them a success, but to me they are a corporate impression of what Lamborghini once was. Lotus I feel would suffer the same fate. Perhaps better in reliability, ease of driving and switchgear layout, but the Lotus feel would likely be dissolved.

[300bhp/ton]

E38Ross said:

cjb1 said:

+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.

E38Ross said:

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.

Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it.

You're kidding right? Have you seen an aventador or a murcielago or the balboni Gallardo etc?

Aren't all of those accused of being too civilised and almost un-Lambourghini like though? As said earlier, I don't think they are bad cars. But to me they just aren't the same as Lambo's of old, different ethos.

[Fire99]

Regarding the Aventador, yes it looks fairly nuts and it's fast but I'm not certain that under the skin, it has genuine lunacy.

[Paul O]

It would appear that one day soon, we will all drive a VW, regardless of the brand you choose...

[crofty1984]

I agree with you, Muppet
(Couldn't resist)

Captain Muppet said:

I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies look, I'm actually replying inside your quote! below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?

hehe

[900T-R]

What, because it doesn't steer like a truck and it isn't impossible to see where you're going from the driver's seat?

[E38Ross]

kambites said:

Scuffers said:

with respect, exactly what have Lotus got that VW does not already have?

People who can set up suspension so that a car handles well without fracturing your spine every time you go over a bump?

You've not been in an R8 have you.

Also - is your Lotus a 52 plate? If so, did I see you driving down kiln lane near the brambridge centre last Thursday?

Edit - or a Gallardo, or a 911.

Edited by E38Ross on Tuesday 24th July 09:04

[gherkins]

kambites said:

People who can set up suspension so that a car handles well without fracturing your spine every time you go over a bump?

No one wants that - it's not sporty.

Perhaps Lotus Engineering will be useful for the aluminium bonding technology, as Audi are supposed to be developing a true A1 replacement, probably electric? But doubt it. Whatever, I doubt we'd see any more Lotus cars.

Please, Caterham or Radical or someone....

[kambites]

E38Ross said:

You've not been in an R8 have you.

Also - is your Lotus a 52 plate? If so, did I see you driving down kiln lane near the brambridge centre last Thursday?

No I haven't been in an R8 but I've been in quite a lot of VAG's other sporty offerings (including a Gallardo, 996, 997, Cayman, Boxster, and all the usual VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda sporty stuff) and they're all far too stiff. If people have really come to believe that the Cayman's ride is acceptable for a sports car, that's a sad state of affairs, IMO. A Cayman/Boxster with Evora suspension and steering would make me a very happy man.

And no, it's a 53 so it wouldn't have been me. There's a few around in that colour, though.

[Captain Muppet]

crofty1984 said:

I agree with Nice work! From now on I'll post in the way that I find most amusing, rather than in a way that makes any sense to the reader. you, Muppet
(Couldn't resist)

Captain Muppet said:

I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies look, I'm actually replying inside your quote! below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?

hehe

[loose cannon]

please please please we dont want a vw lotus no no no
we dont need yet another re badged vag product what a load of ste !!

[drewbagz]

Whilst i don't believe Lotus would benefit hugely from being owned by VW, other than a cracking range of TFSI engines that could well make it into all manner of Lotus cars (preferrably mated to a Lotus gearbox mind), and a parent company with an almost bottomless wallet, i think VW would be the majpr beneficiary, the likes of the GTI for example which was a bit 'wet' in it's MkVI incarnation, would be terrific im sure with a sprinkle of Lotus magic to the chassis.

Certainly makes for an interesting prospect; Lotus running the latest generation of efficient powerful VW engines and VW's running Lotus tuned chassis. The likes of the Renaultsport should be keeping a close eye in their rear view mirror should this come to fruition.

[Dave Hedgehog]

VAG are probably the only company that could save lotus, if they wanted to, they have a superb parts bin that could be used to make focused drivers cars with few luxurys, a product VAG currently do not have

the TTRS i5 or RS4 V8 would be dreamy in a noble'esq type car