RE: Is VW going to buy Lotus?
Discussion
Can I have that comment again, but this time in the Queens English grammar? It looks like some 5 year old spilt all the letters out of a scrabble bag?
Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.
I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?E38Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.
Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it. 300bhp/ton said:
Honestly no.
Whenever you mass market anything, it will dilute the original. The original might be flawed and hugely compromised, but usually those are the points that made it legendary rather than a sensible business proposition. Sometimes the heart should rule the head.
What, you mean like TVR? That worked out well...Whenever you mass market anything, it will dilute the original. The original might be flawed and hugely compromised, but usually those are the points that made it legendary rather than a sensible business proposition. Sometimes the heart should rule the head.
The days when people could sell "flawed and hugely compromised" products and still make a profit is long gone. Wake up.
People now (quite reasonably IMO) expect their cars to come with a basic level of quality control, ergonomics and reliability. Even if they're special. *Especially* if they're special, as they're paying more money for special. Sure, two percent of buyers might think, "oh, it's quirky and characterful that I can't see the heater controls on my Elise without leaning over to the left a bit, or at all in the dark as there's no dash illumination" but the rest just think it's a bit rubbish. 2% isn't enough to stay afloat.
Elise TDI available soon? 
I believe it's been done by a few owners. Captain Muppet said:
DJRC said:
Er chaps remember its not VAG buying Lotus, its VAG buying Proton. Lotus just happens to come in the Proton bundle.
Actually it's a rumour about VAG thinking of maybe buying Proton.But lets not let the total lack of facts get in the way of all the opinions.
Dave Hedgehog said:
S2Mike said:
Apart from being based in Asia (target population / distribution ) what could appeal about Proton ?
Enlighten me please !
they are more prestigious than skoda was when VAG took them over, done a descent job in turning them aroundEnlighten me please !
I know they turned Skoda round but if this is what they are producing, is there room for another range of similar small about town cars??
The prize must be Lotus surely !!
cjb1 said:
Can I have that comment again, but this time in the Queens English grammar? It looks like some 5 year old spilt all the letters out of a scrabble bag?
so no good reason you have for layout jaring that is? I'd love to know what the reason is, even if it makes me feel silly for not being able to work it out for myself. Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.
I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?E38Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.
Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it. Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
S2Mike said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
S2Mike said:
Apart from being based in Asia (target population / distribution ) what could appeal about Proton ?
Enlighten me please !
they are more prestigious than skoda was when VAG took them over, done a descent job in turning them aroundEnlighten me please !
I know they turned Skoda round but if this is what they are producing, is there room for another range of similar small about town cars??
The prize must be Lotus surely !!
I think given the options, VAG get them or they are left out in the wilderness for a bit longer in the hope that something better might come along before they go under I think the VAG option is best. Who would you rather have buy them? Fiat so that they can be a sort of sub Ferrari? Jaguar Land Rover? Either of those would be great but I'm not sure Lotus can survive by themselves. Sadly if VAG do buy I can't see the new Esprit being done as it'll compete with the 911/R8...unless it's already nearly done?
herebebeasties said:
What, you mean like TVR? That worked out well...
Actually I think this is a perfect example tbh.Would you really be happy if TVR still existed, but only made 1700kg GT's full of air bags, on board computers and stability systems?
Personally I'd rather them being remembered for what they were than being bastardised.
herebebeasties said:
The days when people could sell "flawed and hugely compromised" products and still make a profit is long gone. Wake up.
Your opinion.herebebeasties said:
People now (quite reasonably IMO) expect their cars to come with a basic level of quality control, ergonomics and reliability. Even if they're special. *Especially* if they're special, as they're paying more money for special. Sure, two percent of buyers might think, "oh, it's quirky and characterful that I can't see the heater controls on my Elise without leaning over to the left a bit, or at all in the dark as there's no dash illumination" but the rest just think it's a bit rubbish. 2% isn't enough to stay afloat.
Sometimes small businesses need to remain small... hence being a niche. Trying to conquer the world will mean heavy compromises. Many small scale companies Dax, Marlin, even Caterham and Morgan have thrived by not getting too big for their boots. Expansion for expansions sake is not progress.doogz said:
adamshin said:
Elise S2 chassis with a VW 2.0 litre turbo lump, finally a car that may match the VX220 Turbo. Please make this happen for sub 25k
A forced induction Elise type car from Lotus, that's quicker than the VX220.You mean like the Exige?
300bhp/ton said:
Based on what VW have done to other marques I think this would either ruin Lotus for good, or they'll be out on their ear in the cold. Can't see VW having a positive influence on Lotus.
I have to disagree there. The Volkswagen Audi Group builds everything from one of the smallest cheapest city cars to the fastest and most expensive hypercar of all time.In an ideal world I'd rather see Lotus as an independent British company (for the first time in decades, I know...) but realistically I think VAG would be a good home for it. Imagine having to settle for the same group as Bugatti (once the owners of Lotus IIRC?), Bentley, Lamborghini and Porsche?
VAG would never buy the company with the aim of producing a Lotus-branded Up! or anything like that. It would most likely concentrate on sub-Boxster roadsters and track cars, which sounds just fine to me.
I think you'll find that VW want Proton's manufacturing facilities and access to its dealer/distribution network.Its a quick and easy way into a market.They can make either VW's or VW's badged as Protons in vast numbers and without huge development costs.It's a no brainer for them as a massive global carmaker.Perhaps Lotus could persuade Akio Toyoda to buy them,he's on a crusade to bring good sports cars back, so here's an opportunity.
kambites said:
No I haven't been in an R8 but I've been in quite a lot of VAG's other sporty offerings (including a Gallardo, 996, 997, Cayman, Boxster, and all the usual VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda sporty stuff) and they're all far too stiff. If people have really come to believe that the Cayman's ride is acceptable for a sports car, that's a sad state of affairs, IMO. A Cayman/Boxster with Evora suspension and steering would make me a very happy man. 
None of the Porsches you refer to are VAG cars. Ahonen said:
kambites said:
No I haven't been in an R8 but I've been in quite a lot of VAG's other sporty offerings (including a Gallardo, 996, 997, Cayman, Boxster, and all the usual VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda sporty stuff) and they're all far too stiff. If people have really come to believe that the Cayman's ride is acceptable for a sports car, that's a sad state of affairs, IMO. A Cayman/Boxster with Evora suspension and steering would make me a very happy man.
None of the Porsches you refer to are VAG cars. The whole "it has to be stiffly sprung to be sporty" thing gets on my nerves far more than it should do, and the Germans seem to be the worst for it.
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