RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 996 GT3
Discussion
Some great comments about this guys and a question I've often pondered if I was to get another GT3 - which I plan to.
I had a Mk 1 GT3 (LHD) for which BTW I part-exchanged a Merc 190 EVO II. Wish I'd kept the Merc only because it would be worth more than double what I paid for it now, but I digress...
If the Mk (Gen) 2 ride is worse than the Mk 1 I'd be spending a lot of time at the dentists replacing fillings in I plumped for a Mk 2. Once up to speed the Mk 1 was still pretty harsh on UK roads. At anything less than this it was downright harsh.
When I'm back in the market I'll be looking at a 997 for sure. I believe the gear change was improved as well.
I hear what everyone says about it being the last of the handbuilt porsches, but for me it's about driving enjoyment, and they still knock out precent decent cars on the production lines.
Having said all that I totally loved it and miss it like mad. I never wanted for more power, and the zing of the engine from 5,000 through to the red line was simply epic. It had the best steering of any car I've owned.
I had a Mk 1 GT3 (LHD) for which BTW I part-exchanged a Merc 190 EVO II. Wish I'd kept the Merc only because it would be worth more than double what I paid for it now, but I digress...
If the Mk (Gen) 2 ride is worse than the Mk 1 I'd be spending a lot of time at the dentists replacing fillings in I plumped for a Mk 2. Once up to speed the Mk 1 was still pretty harsh on UK roads. At anything less than this it was downright harsh.
When I'm back in the market I'll be looking at a 997 for sure. I believe the gear change was improved as well.
I hear what everyone says about it being the last of the handbuilt porsches, but for me it's about driving enjoyment, and they still knock out precent decent cars on the production lines.
Having said all that I totally loved it and miss it like mad. I never wanted for more power, and the zing of the engine from 5,000 through to the red line was simply epic. It had the best steering of any car I've owned.
There's one big problem here, which is that of impartiality. Anybody who has lusted after and saved for a GT3 will have created a rose-tinted case to justify their purchase. Mk1 owners will feel their car is imbued with heritage, while Mk2 owners will believe their improved engine and different (though possibly not enhanced) damper package. Neither can give an objective answer IMHO.
Then you have the problem of provenance. One man's modified Mk1 vs a neglected Mk2 will be quite different to two box fresh, factory settings cars.
Finally, how is one 'better' than another? Do you want a supple car for thrapping across the countryside, or do you want something stiffer and more powerful to beat your personal bests on trackdays (which you're obviously not timing, no Siree)?
Think you can find two standard cars for a back to back test Chris?
(Edited to add, I'd happy take any GT3 in decent fettle, I'm not sure there's a bad one. Mk1 vs Mk2 is like trying to choose between Scarlett Johannson and another Scarlett Johannson.)
Then you have the problem of provenance. One man's modified Mk1 vs a neglected Mk2 will be quite different to two box fresh, factory settings cars.
Finally, how is one 'better' than another? Do you want a supple car for thrapping across the countryside, or do you want something stiffer and more powerful to beat your personal bests on trackdays (which you're obviously not timing, no Siree)?
Think you can find two standard cars for a back to back test Chris?
(Edited to add, I'd happy take any GT3 in decent fettle, I'm not sure there's a bad one. Mk1 vs Mk2 is like trying to choose between Scarlett Johannson and another Scarlett Johannson.)
Edited by F-Stop Junkie on Wednesday 25th July 13:12
Anyone else think the GT3 seats are horrible? I find they aren't really wide enough for my shoulders and I have to roll my shoulders forward to get comfortable. Totally unlike any other bucket/composite seat I've sat in.
I have no opinion on the GT3, because I've not driven one, just a C2 with the GT3 seats. I don't like the seats. Either GT3 sounds like the sort of thing I'd like though.
I have no opinion on the GT3, because I've not driven one, just a C2 with the GT3 seats. I don't like the seats. Either GT3 sounds like the sort of thing I'd like though.
For once, Chris is wrong. 
The mark 2 (to my mind, "gen 2" was used by enthusiasts to differentiate the 997) has the improvements as he pointed out, but fundamentally with similar geo the cars are very similar. For anyone looking to get into a 996 GT3, buy on condition, don't worry too much about mk 1 vs mk2 (unless shaving a few tenths off your lap time is of critical importance).
Both engines are exceptionally strong. On a public track day, the driver will make more difference than the extra 21bhp. The engine was always about motorsport durability, not 0-60 times, so the comparison with the base Carrera is just for Top Trumps.
Many cars have been uprated to cope with heavy track use, so the inferior synchros and brakes discussion is becoming increasingly moot. By this stage, the original dampers will be in at best mediocre condition, so you may as well go aftermarket on those anyway.
The mark 2 (to my mind, "gen 2" was used by enthusiasts to differentiate the 997) has the improvements as he pointed out, but fundamentally with similar geo the cars are very similar. For anyone looking to get into a 996 GT3, buy on condition, don't worry too much about mk 1 vs mk2 (unless shaving a few tenths off your lap time is of critical importance).
Both engines are exceptionally strong. On a public track day, the driver will make more difference than the extra 21bhp. The engine was always about motorsport durability, not 0-60 times, so the comparison with the base Carrera is just for Top Trumps.
Many cars have been uprated to cope with heavy track use, so the inferior synchros and brakes discussion is becoming increasingly moot. By this stage, the original dampers will be in at best mediocre condition, so you may as well go aftermarket on those anyway.
ah the old struggle between fact and opinion.
Opinions do not need to be justified they are entirely subjective and based on intangibles
On paper the gen 2 is a better car if better means more likely to win at top trumps.
get 100 people in 100 different locations so they cannot influence each other's opinion and get them to drive the two cars back to back . You will then have a sample good enough to sell shampoo.
Which one is better depends on what you think is better and other people will just have to accept that as your opinion, just as you as an individual have to accept other people have a different opinion, there is no right or wrong just opinion, mind you forums would be much less entertaining if everyone took that attitude
Opinions do not need to be justified they are entirely subjective and based on intangibles
On paper the gen 2 is a better car if better means more likely to win at top trumps.
get 100 people in 100 different locations so they cannot influence each other's opinion and get them to drive the two cars back to back . You will then have a sample good enough to sell shampoo.
Which one is better depends on what you think is better and other people will just have to accept that as your opinion, just as you as an individual have to accept other people have a different opinion, there is no right or wrong just opinion, mind you forums would be much less entertaining if everyone took that attitude
I have no useful input on the differences - but an anecdote about the car itself which I like
It was 2000, I think, March plate-change-day and I was working in Leeds - in an area stacked-high with dealerships.
For a week, every dealership looked like a new-car-storage unit - they were piled high and deep. On the day itself, traffic was busier and new cars were disappearing here and there - it was chaotic.
I left work around 4pm to drive to Manchester and passed the Porsche dealer on the way out. The forecourt was bare of the array of shiny new metal which had been there the day before - except for 1 car, a GT3. The new owner was walking around it with his son, who was about 9, pointing out things like the calipers and spoiler etc. etc.
THAT was probably a good day for both of them - I'd guess. That's the GT3 for me
It was 2000, I think, March plate-change-day and I was working in Leeds - in an area stacked-high with dealerships.
For a week, every dealership looked like a new-car-storage unit - they were piled high and deep. On the day itself, traffic was busier and new cars were disappearing here and there - it was chaotic.
I left work around 4pm to drive to Manchester and passed the Porsche dealer on the way out. The forecourt was bare of the array of shiny new metal which had been there the day before - except for 1 car, a GT3. The new owner was walking around it with his son, who was about 9, pointing out things like the calipers and spoiler etc. etc.
THAT was probably a good day for both of them - I'd guess. That's the GT3 for me
Firstly, going to agree with Mr Harris. I prefer the mk2 996 GT3 for looks and eagerness and with a decent geometry set up it's a wonderful tool.
SirSamuelBuca said:
whats the difference between these and a 966 turbo? I think i would prefer a turbo looking at specs?
maybe im missing the point
My work car is a 996 turbo - and if you have to ask the question then i'm afraid you might well be missing the point maybe im missing the point
I used to own the silver car in the headline about 8 years ago - a factory Clubsport. It went very well, until I overdid it and bounced across the scenery at the exit of School at Anglesey. Actually it went OK afterwards too - a new indicator repeater, clips for the archliner and a bit gentle persuasion to reshape the inside of the bootfloor with a bit 3x2 and all was fine again.
I've had both types but definitely prefer the look of the earlier car - the rear spoiler in particular looked like it had been designed and styled perfectly (someone posted a picture recently of this alongside the interior door handle, showing the similarity of lines), rather than the MKII which looks like they decided to change it for the sake of it and had no time/budget so someone grabbed the nearest teatray and made it fit.
I've had both types but definitely prefer the look of the earlier car - the rear spoiler in particular looked like it had been designed and styled perfectly (someone posted a picture recently of this alongside the interior door handle, showing the similarity of lines), rather than the MKII which looks like they decided to change it for the sake of it and had no time/budget so someone grabbed the nearest teatray and made it fit.
I agree, put simply it's subjective b
ks that doesn't stand up to reasonable testing, not least when I see people suggest it's 'miles better' which is simply wrong. Does't go as well, wasn't as solid and to my eyes didn't look as good and I put those over the fact they made less and that it was first.
ks that doesn't stand up to reasonable testing, not least when I see people suggest it's 'miles better' which is simply wrong. Does't go as well, wasn't as solid and to my eyes didn't look as good and I put those over the fact they made less and that it was first. 
FIGHT ! 
I think they are both amazing but am looking forwards more to the arguments over which is better the GT3 997 or the new 2014 GT3 which will be PDK only and will of course be faster etc but will it be better :-) http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/06/2014-po...
Devil2575 said:
For the benefit of the thickies in the room, are the gen 1 and gen 2 cars refered to both the 996 or is it refering to the 996 and 997 GT3?
Sorry for my ingonrance
As I think Harris_I pointed out earlier, the article refers to the 996 Mark 1 and Mark 2.Sorry for my ingonrance
The Gen1/Gen2 nomenclature seems to have been adopted for the 997 onwards, and retrospectively applied in the article.
jeremyc said:
s I think Harris_I pointed out earlier, the article refers to the 996 Mark 1 and Mark 2.
The Gen1/Gen2 nomenclature seems to have been adopted for the 997 onwards, and retrospectively applied in the article.
I did actually ring Porsche to see if there is an official way of defining 996.1/996.2, mark 1/mark 2, Gen.1/Gen.2 or however you want to call it but the general response was ............... um ............ no .............. not really. It was conceded that Gen. 1 and 2 are common vernacular applied to 997s but, internally at least, there seems to be no official definition, code or any other way of telling them apart. Which I doubt, personally, but I did ask! HTH, etc!The Gen1/Gen2 nomenclature seems to have been adopted for the 997 onwards, and retrospectively applied in the article.
I love Monkey boy but he has definitely got this wrong...
I had a 996 C2 first which was a bitter dissapointment and never felt particularly fast which I subsequently part exchanged for a first gen GT3-the difference was massive in every respect and there is no way on earth anyone who drove both would have said the performance was similar.
Also using data logging I found the 0-60 times were almost unbelievably consistent and it was very easy to match factory times-around the same time I had a little Citroen C2 and couldn't get within a second of it's official 0-60 time...
As someone has already said if I wanted the best GT3 I'd by the latest model-as Octane magazine have established this month a well prepared BDG engined mk2 escort is slower than a modern Fiesta rally car but I know which one most people would choose. I'm equally sure that most of us would pick a 2.7RS in preference to any GT3 and I doubt for one second that it would be the better car objectively.
Really hoping that Monkey boy is just being contraversial to stimulate debate?
Finally Evo magazine felt the first gen GT3 was the best of the 996s even though the original probably would have posted the slowest lap time.
I had a 996 C2 first which was a bitter dissapointment and never felt particularly fast which I subsequently part exchanged for a first gen GT3-the difference was massive in every respect and there is no way on earth anyone who drove both would have said the performance was similar.
Also using data logging I found the 0-60 times were almost unbelievably consistent and it was very easy to match factory times-around the same time I had a little Citroen C2 and couldn't get within a second of it's official 0-60 time...
As someone has already said if I wanted the best GT3 I'd by the latest model-as Octane magazine have established this month a well prepared BDG engined mk2 escort is slower than a modern Fiesta rally car but I know which one most people would choose. I'm equally sure that most of us would pick a 2.7RS in preference to any GT3 and I doubt for one second that it would be the better car objectively.
Really hoping that Monkey boy is just being contraversial to stimulate debate?
Finally Evo magazine felt the first gen GT3 was the best of the 996s even though the original probably would have posted the slowest lap time.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff