RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 996 GT3

[cris9964]

MadMark911 said:

The MK1's spoiler is nicer than the MKII's - therefore Mr Harris is wrong!

Edited by cris9964 on Wednesday 25th July 15:52

[Gary11]

Both models are IMO the only bright spots on the 996 horizon,even the Turbos are now slipping in value with many poorly maintained cars now on the market the Gt2 also is a stunning apreciating car, provenance and rarity will always shore up the values of the 911 but only specific cars,if you dont like Clarkson "Get" The whole 911 thing its IMO pointless arguing over performance figures ETC I mean a 72RS or even a 964/993rs arent fast in todays world but are just about perfect....how much are they now??

[sleep envy]

Garlick said:

sleep envy said:

how very dare you!

Still busy?

Yep, very.

[mat205125]

cris9964 said:

MadMark911 said:

The MK1's spoiler is nicer than the MKII's - therefore Mr Harris is wrong!

Edited by cris9964 on Wednesday 25th July 15:52

One of the best spoiler efforts in automotive history IMO. Form AND function!

[Output Flange]

mat205125 said:

One of the best spoiler efforts in automotive history IMO. Form AND function!

Can't stand it personally.

I'll take an RS spoiler any day:

[Schnellmann]

I owned a gen1 when they were new. Loved it.

A few weeks back I had a decent drive of a friend's gen 2. That was brilliant too. There were many years between selling mine and driving his but they felt very similar. I think I would have to have driven them back to back to find differences.

Objectively the gen 2 has got to be better. I still prefer the look of the gen1. If I were in the market for a 996 GT3 I would concentrate on finding the best example not focus on whether it was gen 1 or 2.

Bit of a storm in a teacup this thread IMO.

[rohrl]

[quote=cris9964]



quote]

Much nicer.

Maybe I misremember but I'm pretty sure the original road tests of the first GT3 had it pegged as being too firmly suspended for UK roads and a bit ropey on steering feel turning in to a corner.

[ge0rge]

Output Flange said:

Can't stand it personally.

I'll take an RS spoiler any day:

Looks too ricer imo?!

[Vetteran]

Had both. Earlier car too slow, later car ride too firm. Understand 997 GT3 much better

[m7a]

When I was looking for a GT3, I, rightly or wrongly, took the verdicts from the contemporary road tests and subsequent 'Best Driver's Car' pieces in evo as a guide. The general consensus was that the Gen 1 car was the better of the two. For me, the earlier car looks so much better (bumpers, lights, wheels, wing), so a Gen 1 car it was. And not once have I thought "you know what this car needs; more power, better brakes and stronger synchros."

I'll happily bow to Mr Harris' greater experience, but for me the looks outweigh any slight difference in how they drive.

Edited by m7a on Wednesday 25th July 16:42

[jeremyc]

Dan Trent said:

jeremyc said:

As I think Harris_I pointed out earlier, the article refers to the 996 Mark 1 and Mark 2.

The Gen1/Gen2 nomenclature seems to have been adopted for the 997 onwards, and retrospectively applied in the article.

I did actually ring Porsche to see if there is an official way of defining 996.1/996.2, mark 1/mark 2, Gen.1/Gen.2 or however you want to call it but the general response was ............... um ............ no .............. not really. It was conceded that Gen. 1 and 2 are common vernacular applied to 997s but, internally at least, there seems to be no official definition, code or any other way of telling them apart. Which I doubt, personally, but I did ask! HTH, etc!

I believe that Porsche internally work on model years, each having been given a 'Programme' identifier:
1999 = X Programme
2000 = Y Programme
2001 = 1 Programme
2002 = 2 Programme
etc.

The first 996 GT3 variant was considered as being introduced in the 2000 model year (Y Programme) and the facelifted variant in 2003 model year (3 Programme).

I think.

[Quat]

This seems like a silly argument – surly the next generation of most cars are faster and handle better but it doesn’t make the older cars less desirable . If it did no one would buy 2.7 RS’s or 964 RS’s and I’d be able to afford one.

[monthefish]

mat205125 said:

cris9964 said:

MadMark911 said:

The MK1's spoiler is nicer than the MKII's - therefore Mr Harris is wrong!

Edited by cris9964 on Wednesday 25th July 15:52

One of the best spoiler efforts in automotive history IMO. Form AND function!

Looks like an aerobie (anyone remeber them?) folded in half, but I still love it.

[monthefish]

the article said:

It wasn't that quick either. I can remember struggling to extract acceleration figures from it that were better than the stock Carrera - it was barely any faster than the admittedly suspiciously fast 996 C2 launch cars.

Perhaps the fact that the GT3 was heavier than a basic C2 had something to do with it....

[Mastodon2]

cris9964 said:

Edited by cris9964 on Wednesday 25th July 15:52

Imo, one of the single greatest pieces of automotive design, ever. Porsche just know how to make a spoiler fit the car perfectly, and the sloping rear of a 911 is the perfect backdrop for a good wing. However, I do agree the spoiler on the MK2 is not so pretty, not as bad as the "Fast n Furious" style wing as seen on the new C63 AMG Black (I hate those black, bolted-on looking arms they use to mount the spoiler, looks totally Halfords), but it does look a bit "stuck on". No flowing form any attempt to integrate design themes from the car into it, it's just an ironing board stuck on the back. However, it is probably more effective than the MK1 spoiler, due to higher positioning. Function over form, but not as pretty for it.

[monthefish]

VerySideways said:

SirSamuelBuca said:

whats the difference between these and a 966 turbo? I think i would prefer a turbo looking at specs?

maybe im missing the point

My work car is a 996 turbo - and if you have to ask the question then i'm afraid you might well be missing the point

My work car is a diesel 3 series, and my weekend (special) car is a 996 turbo.

I'm afraid you might well be missing the point.



SirSamuelBuca - There are a lot of people on the internet, most of whom have never owned (and often have never driven) a GT3, who bang on about it being the weekend/special car choice and the turbo being an everyday car. This is because the GT3 is a lot more compromised than the turbo, but it is no faster.

The GT3 is sharper/purer vehicle for track work, but the difference between it and the turbo isn't as great as those people described above would have you believe (as I say, this is because they haven't driven one and therefore don't know what they are talking about).

[Schnellmann]

monthefish said:

My work car is a diesel 3 series, and my weekend (special) car is a 996 turbo.

I'm afraid you might well be missing the point.



SirSamuelBuca - There are a lot of people on the internet, most of whom have never owned (and often have never driven) a GT3, who bang on about it being the weekend/special car choice and the turbo being an everyday car. This is because the GT3 is a lot more compromised than the turbo, but it is no faster.

The GT3 is sharper/purer vehicle for track work, but the difference between it and the turbo isn't as great as those people described above would have you believe (as I say, this is because they haven't driven one and therefore don't know what they are talking about).

The 996 TT is a great car in its own right....but it is laughable to say it is not that different from a GT3.. At least in my experience. They may have similar performance but how that is delivered and the feedback you get are very very different.

[interloper]

mat205125 said:

cris9964 said:

MadMark911 said:

The MK1's spoiler is nicer than the MKII's - therefore Mr Harris is wrong!

Edited by cris9964 on Wednesday 25th July 15:52

One of the best spoiler efforts in automotive history IMO. Form AND function!

That for me is why the original is the best, that wing! Never liked the gen 2s spoiler, were as the original GT3s rear fixture was to my mind a real selling point, I wonder if you could retro fit one on to a gen 2 car?

[monthefish]

Schnellmann said:

monthefish said:

My work car is a diesel 3 series, and my weekend (special) car is a 996 turbo.

I'm afraid you might well be missing the point.



SirSamuelBuca - There are a lot of people on the internet, most of whom have never owned (and often have never driven) a GT3, who bang on about it being the weekend/special car choice and the turbo being an everyday car. This is because the GT3 is a lot more compromised than the turbo, but it is no faster.

The GT3 is sharper/purer vehicle for track work, but the difference between it and the turbo isn't as great as those people described above would have you believe (as I say, this is because they haven't driven one and therefore don't know what they are talking about).

The 996 TT is a great car in its own right....but it is laughable to say it is not that different from a GT3.. At least in my experience. They may have similar performance but how that is delivered and the feedback you get are very very different.

They are different - I said that - but the difference between it and the turbo isn't as great as those people described above would have you believe.

[AndrewD]

jeremyc said:

nerd: I believe that Porsche internally work on model years, each having been given a 'Programme' identifier:
1999 = X Programme
2000 = Y Programme
2001 = 1 Programme
2002 = 2 Programme
etc.

The first 996 GT3 variant was considered as being introduced in the 2000 model year (Y Programme) and the facelifted variant in 2003 model year (3 Programme).

I think.

You seriously need to get out more Mr C