HID conversion kits?
Discussion
80sboy said:
We're talking after-market here though right? Therefore he was suggesting after-market HIDs are okay in reflector housing "if aligned okay".
They never are/can't be aligned okay because most HID bulbs are designed for projector units which are also self levelling.
You can buy HIDs designed for reflector housing, they have a metal strip on the bulb. The biggest shame is most retailers I've spoken to haven't got a clue what you are on about when you ask about such things.They never are/can't be aligned okay because most HID bulbs are designed for projector units which are also self levelling.
kambites said:
Strictly speaking they shouldn't be retrofitted to anything unless they're OEM upgrades - HIDs are illegal unless the casing carries full EU type approval for use with HID bulbs. In practice there is leniency if they're fitted properly but the definition of "properly" isn't clearly defined.
Overall, I'm not convinced that reflector vs projector or OEM vs aftermarket makes a massive difference - the damned things are all blinding if you drive a low car.
I agree with you, they can be really annoying, even if fitted from the factory. Range Rovers are the worst I've found, they ride too high and just blind all those in normal cars! Overall, I'm not convinced that reflector vs projector or OEM vs aftermarket makes a massive difference - the damned things are all blinding if you drive a low car.
The standard lights in the Z4 were TERRIBLE. The dim bulbs combined with a short beam throw just felt unsafe. I made certain that the HIDs I fitted were aligned correctly, correct colour temp, correct wattage, etc.
My point was that this can't really be achieved in reflector housing.
300bhp/ton said:
80sboy said:
We're talking after-market here though right? Therefore he was suggesting after-market HIDs are okay in reflector housing "if aligned okay".
They never are/can't be aligned okay because most HID bulbs are designed for projector units which are also self levelling.
You can buy HIDs designed for reflector housing, they have a metal strip on the bulb. The biggest shame is most retailers I've spoken to haven't got a clue what you are on about when you ask about such things.They never are/can't be aligned okay because most HID bulbs are designed for projector units which are also self levelling.
80sboy said:
Exactly my point.
There's some great info here: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.htmlSome extracts from the site:
BULB SELECTION
HID bulbs come in two common standards today known as: D2S and D2R. D2S uses the D2 base and a clear, naked bulb. D2R uses the same D2 base and a bulb with a metallic strip along one edge to combat unwanted glare in the reflector headlamp. So in OEM HID applications D2R is used in reflector-type HID assemblies whereas D2S is used in projector-type assemblies. When you're purchasing an HID kit, you want to go with a D2S bulb because it emits slightly more light than the D2R.
For conversion kits of course we won't be using a D2 base, but probably a H fitment, H4 or whatever, but the fact still remains the "R" type bulbs are the ones you need for reflector lamps.
As far as color selection goes, there are two main color temperatures out there: ~4100 kelvin, which is OEM color, and ~6000 kelvin, which is aftermarket color. By the way, the term 'color temperature' does not have any correlation with the property of 'thermal temperature'. I personally do not see any reason for buying anything other than 4100K OEM, but that's me. Some people like blue light and are willing to pay extra money for extra blueness and less brightness---and thus the 6000K market. I'm sure the reason isn't because people like to see everything on the road in bluescale, but because they want their headlights to appear blue to onlookers. The proper way to achieve more blue/violet in your HIDs is to do an OEM projector HID retrofit and upgrade the projector lenses to ECE-spec.
The following is probably one of the largest and most deceitful marketing ploys exploited on the internet today. So I will state, for the record: Osram-Sylvania's highest color temperature bulb is 5400K and Philips' highest color temperature bulb is 5800K (marketed at 6000K Ultinon). Nowhere on either of their corporate or consumer websites do they claim, endorse, or offer any HID bulb or kit that produces light over 6000K.
--this maybe out of date information these days, but was certainly correct a few years ago.
MISCONCEPTIONS
There are many companies and private merchants out there that will advertise 7000K, 8000K, and even 12000K HID kits. Most of these vendors lurk around on ebay, online car forums, websites, and ricer accessory shops. 100% of the people that buy these kits do so because they are uninformed, uneducated, or misguided in the field of lighting, and will buy these junk kits thinking three things: that these bulbs are brighter.
So allow me to explain the real truth of the matter... Philips is the number one manufacturer of HID bulbs. The Philips OEM D2S bulb is rated at 4100K at 12.8 volts and produces 3200 lumens of light. The Philips Ultinon D2S is 5800K at 12.8 volts and produces 2400 lumens of light. As you can see, with all other factors remaining constant, the brightness of an HID bulb declines the higher up the color index you go. Vision, a Korean bulb manufacturer, makes an 8000K bulb, which they used to advertise on Acura-Forums as 2000 lumens bright. This is barely a marked improvement over halogens, and will produce more glare and eye fatigue than it is beneficial.
4100K has been proven through tireless independent research by the Germans, Japanese, and Americans to be the most functional, truest white and thus the brightest possible color temperature (ceteris paribus).
Every car manufacturer in the world (including BMW and Audi) uses none other than a standard 4100K gas-discharge bulb. No exceptions. The reason being is that 4100K is daylight white in color and produces the same color visible light as direct sunlight. This is least fatiguing functional color on the eyes and produces the most comfortable contrast on the road.
You are looking at two 8000K HID low beam and fog light kits installed on a GS300 (gs300). One of the foglights retains the orignal halogen bulb for comparison purposes.
What I'm trying to illustrate here is the glow of blue light (or glare) that radiates off 8000K bulbs. This glow breaks out of the beam pattern and blinds oncoming motorists. Also note how small the actual brightness gain is when you go from factory halogen to 8000K HID. Is it even worth your while?
Blue light also shifts the color hue of everything on the road to blue scale, which fatigues your eyes more than a standard halogen bulb, and it's brightness isn't that much of a marked improvement over a xenon-filled halogen bulb. As evidence of this blue eye fatigue, anyone in the Armed Forces, or anyone who is an astonomer/stargazer, knows to read maps and charts at night using a red light.
Above is an 8000K HID kit conversion installed on a GS400 (a1exus) with typical poor cut-off and severe color bleeding above and around the cut-off line, and even in the shadows of the railings. This is just one example of blue light's high-energy wavelengths. All the light above the poorly defined cut-off can be translated into "glare" by other motorists.
Here is a 4100K OEM HID retrofit with sharp, clean cut-off as well as sharp defined beam pattern. The very well defined bounds are created by properly engineered optics used in their intended design. This is a perfect beam pattern. Notice that only the driver-side headlight is on and this is merely half of the light this car will end up producing.
D2R was originally developed for Mercedes because they didn't want to change their headlight design too much to accommodate HID. Audi followed their lead and spec'd D2R on cars like my S8 (bi-xenon)
Once manufacturers moved to projector units the D2R lamp became fairly redundant so you'll see most conversion sets advertised with bulbs based on the D2S (minus the base, obviously)
I did look at HID conversion for my front fogs as they're rarely used except on late night blasts down unlit country lanes but decided to fit high quality Philips H bulbs instead for a tenner a pop - you can actually tell they're on now even though I've fitted new D2R bulbs to replace the aged originals.
I wouldn't retrofit HID to any headlight personally as the quality of the kits seem almost universally poor and sellers hide behind ambiguous get out of jail free statements regarding legality.
I did believe the MOT test was supposed to now check that HIDs performed an auto level check when you switched them on to confirm levelling is fitted? Without that and power wash I would assume eventually testers should be failing the majority of retrofit once there's been some clarification.
As said though it's a 5 minute job to switch the bulbs for the MOT if it ever does fail so it's pretty much unenforceable unless you get pulled at the roadside
Once manufacturers moved to projector units the D2R lamp became fairly redundant so you'll see most conversion sets advertised with bulbs based on the D2S (minus the base, obviously)
I did look at HID conversion for my front fogs as they're rarely used except on late night blasts down unlit country lanes but decided to fit high quality Philips H bulbs instead for a tenner a pop - you can actually tell they're on now even though I've fitted new D2R bulbs to replace the aged originals.
I wouldn't retrofit HID to any headlight personally as the quality of the kits seem almost universally poor and sellers hide behind ambiguous get out of jail free statements regarding legality.
I did believe the MOT test was supposed to now check that HIDs performed an auto level check when you switched them on to confirm levelling is fitted? Without that and power wash I would assume eventually testers should be failing the majority of retrofit once there's been some clarification.
As said though it's a 5 minute job to switch the bulbs for the MOT if it ever does fail so it's pretty much unenforceable unless you get pulled at the roadside
FoundOnRoadside said:
calibrax said:
...*sigh* this again...
They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.
They would have until January past. Now they're an instant fail.They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.
Hi
I have fitted 6000k to my Puma and they demonstrate non of the the glare shown above with the Lexus on 300/bhp's post.
IMO they make a VAST improvement as the standard bulds were dangerously poor and made driving at night hazardous and rather tedious.
My HID kit was one of the cheapest on the market at €60.
Installation was simple enough and they seem reliable apart from every now and again the NS bulb won't come on and needs a couple of ON/OFF's to kick it into life. Dodgy connection somewhere I suspect.
I would not hesitate to buy them again as they produce a nice white illumination which works well at night and not once have I ever been flashed etc
NOTE: I live in Ireland and they are perfectly legal, ta very much.
HTH
I have fitted 6000k to my Puma and they demonstrate non of the the glare shown above with the Lexus on 300/bhp's post.
IMO they make a VAST improvement as the standard bulds were dangerously poor and made driving at night hazardous and rather tedious.
My HID kit was one of the cheapest on the market at €60.
Installation was simple enough and they seem reliable apart from every now and again the NS bulb won't come on and needs a couple of ON/OFF's to kick it into life. Dodgy connection somewhere I suspect.
I would not hesitate to buy them again as they produce a nice white illumination which works well at night and not once have I ever been flashed etc
NOTE: I live in Ireland and they are perfectly legal, ta very much.
HTH
To cut a long story short, My bike is classed as a moped so on the M.O.T all the tester checks is function and rough alignment. I've now bought the ballast kits and the bulbs for £30 the pair
My bike is only meant to have 35w headlight bulbs in and I couldn't find 35w H3 halogens but the ballast packs only draw 35w, the same as the original sealed eam unit which I had to replace with a normal pair of lights as the dipped beam had gone.
And I also have been going through headlight bulbs like anything. I have blown 2 good osram new halogens in 2 weeks. I've checked the voltage on the output wires even at revs and it peaks at about 13.3 but it's kicking out AC rather than DC as the ballast packs require so I've also wired in a diode bridge rectifier to the dip and main beam wiring.
My bike is only meant to have 35w headlight bulbs in and I couldn't find 35w H3 halogens but the ballast packs only draw 35w, the same as the original sealed eam unit which I had to replace with a normal pair of lights as the dipped beam had gone.
And I also have been going through headlight bulbs like anything. I have blown 2 good osram new halogens in 2 weeks. I've checked the voltage on the output wires even at revs and it peaks at about 13.3 but it's kicking out AC rather than DC as the ballast packs require so I've also wired in a diode bridge rectifier to the dip and main beam wiring.
calibrax said:
Flew through my MOT in March... as I said, they are not a fail item in the 2012 MOT guidelines.
Surprised this debate is still happening.I suppose the amount of conflicting advice VOSA gave out in it's technical briefings prior to the 2012 revisions and that DfT statement expressing their "view" haven't helped.
The more interesting question about this debate to me is how competent are VOSA's Roadworthiness policy team?
The whole "aftermarket HIDs aren't legal and are going in the Tester's Manual" debacle was based on a misreading of a key EU Directive on roadworthiness by VOSA.
The sections referring to headlight self levelling and washing systems (4.1.5 / 4.1.6 link below) states that these are only required "where mandatory". These were not mandatory requirements of our MOT previously and so the Directive would not have required these elements on HID equipped vehicles.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...
So the questions I'd like answered; are VOSA merely incompetent or did their policy people attempt to deliberately pull a fast one? Which other elements of roadworthiness legislation have they misinterpreted in constructing the MOT regs?
I would submit an FOI but VOSA responses to those have been selective with the truth too:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vosa_traffic...
It seems only the threat of adverse publicity can get this Agency to tell the whole truth and nothing but:
Auto Express said:
A spokesman for VOSA denied that this was the case. He said: “If a car has the washing and self-levelling system then we’ll check it and it will need to be in full working order. If it’s not there, we don’t check it – we give the owner the benefit of the doubt.”
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