Insurance for a 17 year old, just passed his test. £4,000+

[J4CKO]

scarble said:

J4CKO said:

It isn't a right, never will be, but it is your right to swing your leg over a push bike and use the public roads for free, I did this at 17 as well so I could get to work, insurance is ridiculous but it isn't going to change.

What the are you even doing on pistonheads?
Any way, considering it is car drivers who pay roadtax to maintain the public roads what makes you think it is your right to use them? I don't remember this being enshrined in law.

You can enjoy both, I pay VED on three cars and my salary, I have an old 944 to cover the PH angle, just sick of youngsters playing hard done by, yes it is too expensive, it is obscene but there is no way around it, if you want private motorised transport you have to pay for it, you can get a bike for a few quid and ride it for free, in the meantime save up, get educated, pass exams and strive to get a good job and then you may be in the position that most think they deserve to be in.

It is enshrined in law I can use the roads on my bike whenever I want, same as it is enshrined I can't use a car without insurance, tax, mot and a licence.

Motoring is expensive, it requires income which requires a job, bit chicken and egg but really if you can't afford to drive people need to make alternative arrangements, move nearer the work and/or use alternative transport, sorry but it is hard st if you can't get your head round making changes, it's only for a year or two, just need to get through it.

[otolith]

It is reaching the point where young drivers simply cannot afford to pay for the liabilities they incur by driving. This is a problem, but isn't the fault of the insurance companies. They are merely passing on the costs they face to those who (as a group) incur them.

If you want someone to blame, blame the last government for opening the door to no-win-no-fee or blame the people who now see a minor car accident as two weeks in the sun or a new bathroom, or those who think driving a small hatchback while their car is in the bodyshop is beneath them.

The counter-argument is that previously drivers who maimed others through their incompetence by and large got away without being held accountable for the financial consequences of their actions.

Options to fix the issue -

• Young people find some other way of getting about - cycling, walking, public transport, scooters, taxis, car sharing with older drivers, etc.

• Young people reduce their need for transport by living closer to amenities.

• The rest of us put our hands in our pockets and pay for their bad driving.

• They stop crashing so much.

• We make the victims of their driving suck it up.

To be honest, I find it amazing that this is so much of a problem when university participation has increased so much. When I was a student, hardly any of us felt able to afford to run a car. Now for many it is an expectation.

[Raize]

ZOLLAR said:

You know about this sort of thing so let me ask an unrelated question:

If I bought a car 3 years ago, but someone else has been driving it and is the registered keeper until very recently, is it correct for me to say that I have owned the car for 3 years to an insurer?

[J4CKO]

JB! said:

J4CKO said:

I'm 41 and cycle the seven miles to work in all weathers, all through winter.

It isn't a right, never will be, but it is your right to swing your leg over a push bike and use the public roads for free, I did this at 17 as well so I could get to work, insurance is ridiculous but it isn't going to change.


Four grand pays for a lot of taxis as well, it just isn't a good use of cash, think a lot need to delay a year or two and make alternative arrangements.

The roads out here are lethal in the winter months, you don't see one peorson cycling into work along them, not so bad in the summer, I ended up car sharing with my old man untill I passed as thankfully I worked similar hours.

I also kicked off when they tried to charge me more for passing.

Things that help make it cheaper:

Own the car for over a year before insuring.

Live somewhere nice.

Add parents.

Pick obscure cars.

There are other ways too but nobody on PH ever bends the rules...

Roads can be bad but usually an alternative route can be found to the one we use in a car, google earth is excellent for this, bikes can use tracks, single track roads, anything really, I can get a lot of places avoiding main roads.

[flibbage0]

GroundEffect said:

Instead of complaining about the insurance cost (afterall, they are a business not a charity) why not campaign for young guys to be better drivers?

It's been done to death, they've even tried bringing in ex motorists that have done time or are currently doing time into schools to show the 6th formers.

They've also tried using attractive women and chart music to get their attention.

As soon as they walk out of the room they forget about everything.

Edited by flibbage0 on Tuesday 31st July 16:51

[Negative Creep]

otolith said:

This is a problem, but isn't the fault of the insurance companies. They are merely passing on the costs they face to those who (as a group) incur them.

Apart from the insurers who made money selling details to said personal injury parasites

[ZOLLAR]

Raize said:

ZOLLAR said:

You know about this sort of thing so let me ask an unrelated question:

If I bought a car 3 years ago, but someone else has been driving it and is the registered keeper until very recently, is it correct for me to say that I have owned the car for 3 years to an insurer?

It'll vary per insurer and how they may view the risk but with Admiral it's when the vehicle has been owned within the family, there is an insurable interest in the car, when you bought the car or how long you've had access to the car as a named driver.

If you bought the car 3 years ago but have never driven the car I would say you can put down you have owned it for tehe 3 years (obviously) it does fly in the face of the arguement of "owning the car means you've had more driving experience" but no system is perfect.

[JB!]

ZOLLAR said:

Charming, you're not indicative of the whole country.
Yes there are a many number of people who live in areas with very poor public transport but quite frankly and bluntly that is not the problem of insurers, if insurers feel and have proof young drivers are a high risk why should they not charge a high premium considering it is their money at risk.

Driving a car is not a privilege full stop there are many different options such a friend buying a car and you sharing costs, as mentioned moving to where there are more jobs etc

Sorry, in one of those moods.

Moving? Without earning? good luck!!!! If you think driving is expensive at 17, try moving out!!!!

There ARE options, but the whole system of driving in the UK needs reform, it doesnt work. People moan about lazy teenagers, yet contiue to support a system that penalises them.

Also, alot of people i know who went off to uni, sold their cars to help pay for it all.

[otolith]

Negative Creep said:

otolith said:

This is a problem, but isn't the fault of the insurance companies. They are merely passing on the costs they face to those who (as a group) incur them.

Apart from the insurers who made money selling details to said personal injury parasites

The parasites would find them either way - but yes, that's something that the regulator should put a stop to.

[yorkebar]

flibbage0 said:

It's been done to death, they've even tried bringing in ex motorists that have done time or are currently doing time into schools to show the 6th formers.

They've also tried using attractive women and chart music to get their attention.

As soon as they walk out of the room they forget about everything.

Edited by flibbage0 on Tuesday 31st July 16:51

we had an outing at our college last year called 'safedrive', showed us some gruesome videos and used a dj to make it feel like a night out.. most of the people there were shocked enough to drive safely, but then there were a few lads in the room cracking jokes and laughing at the disabled guest. 3 weeks later 4 of those lads were involved in a car accident and 2 of them broke limbs. seemed like a bit of justice.

then a couple of weeks later one of my close friends was involved in a accident on an icy road at night, shocked us all as she was a decent driver who didn't take risks. so really it can happen to anyone, i dont like paying £2000+ to insure my spitfire, but i understand why the costs are there.

[ZOLLAR]

JB! said:

ZOLLAR said:

Charming, you're not indicative of the whole country.
Yes there are a many number of people who live in areas with very poor public transport but quite frankly and bluntly that is not the problem of insurers, if insurers feel and have proof young drivers are a high risk why should they not charge a high premium considering it is their money at risk.

Driving a car is not a privilege full stop there are many different options such a friend buying a car and you sharing costs, as mentioned moving to where there are more jobs etc

Sorry, in one of those moods.

Moving? Without earning? good luck!!!! If you think driving is expensive at 17, try moving out!!!!

There ARE options, but the whole system of driving in the UK needs reform, it doesnt work. People moan about lazy teenagers, yet contiue to support a system that penalises them.

Also, alot of people i know who went off to uni, sold their cars to help pay for it all.

It's drastic I agree but your options are.

1) Can't afford to drive, don't drive, no job, poor standard of life

2) Can't afford to drive, realise need a job, move somewhere closer, get a job

I know it's not as simple as that but unfortunately that's the situation people face and not surprisingly many people do move.
If you want something you have to make sacrifices and endure hardships unfortunately in this day and age people (young people usually) believe they have a right to everything without hard choices

That last bit isn't aimed at you JB, but it is something I deal with on a day to day basis.

[JB!]

ZOLLAR said:

It's drastic I agree but your options are.

1) Can't afford to drive, don't drive, no job, poor standard of life

2) Can't afford to drive, realise need a job, move somewhere closer, get a job

I know it's not as simple as that but unfortunately that's the situation people face and not surprisingly many people do move.
If you want something you have to make sacrifices and endure hardships unfortunately in this day and age people (young people usually) believe they have a right to everything without hard choices

That last bit isn't aimed at you JB, but it is something I deal with on a day to day basis.

Agreed, there is an attitude problem, but it goes both ways, "yoof" wanting everything on a plate to older people with an "i'm alright, jack" attitude whereby they benefit from the current system so screw everyone else.

there is no way the private insurance system will ever be affordable to new drivers, so it needs to go.

Better education. Restrictions, and nationalised systems are the way to go. Yeah, its a bit communist, but with 10's of millions of drivers, it may need to be.

[clockworks]

Not really sure what all the fuss is about. Driving is expensive for youngsters, and it's not going to get any cheaper.

When I was at school (6th form), none of the kids had a car. One or two passed their car test, but they just drove their parent's cars at the weekend. A few of us had mopeds or 250s. Most caught the bus or cycled. Quite a few of the teachers didn't own cars. This was in the mid 70's.

I stuck with bikes until I was 21, when I bought a 3-wheeler. Ran that for 3 years, then took my car test. I wonder how much a Reliant Robin costs to insure now?

If you live in the sticks, then I agree that it's not a simple matter to catch a bus. Thing is, if more people wanted to catch a bus, the local coach operators could afford to run them. Plenty of buses and coaches sitting around empty, just used for two hours a day as school buses. If the operators could earn a few quid taking non-car owners to work, I'm sure they'd do it. You might have to walk a mile or two from your house, but that shouldn't be a problem for a youngster.
Sharing expenses with an older car owner who's travelling the same way also works.
Contrary to popular belief, it's also possible to cycle in the rain, or even walk a few miles.

Not having a car is something that many of us will have to get used to. Even if the oil doesn't run out before we die, most of us will have to give up driving because we are too old to cope.

[chrisispringles]

ZOLLAR said:

It's drastic I agree but your options are.

1) Can't afford to drive, don't drive, no job, poor standard of life

2) Can't afford to drive, realise need a job, move somewhere closer, get a job

I know it's not as simple as that but unfortunately that's the situation people face and not surprisingly many people do move.
If you want something you have to make sacrifices and endure hardships unfortunately in this day and age people (young people usually) believe they have a right to everything without hard choices

That last bit isn't aimed at you JB, but it is something I deal with on a day to day basis.

This may seem easy when you've ridden the property bubble all the way up, but when you have no money and no job you cannot afford to move away from home. The deposit on a basic bedsit is more than a months income at minimum wage and not many people's parents have that sort of money to throw at a deposit. Even then, there are no garuntees of work, so you could be racking up debt at the rate of at least £100pw for nothing, just for rent. If you do find work, then your wages will not cover your basic living expenses unless you can get more than minimum wage and 40 hours a week. With the job market the way it is, it's a massive gamble with no returns if you are lucky. If you aren't, then you are in a deep hole with no money and nowhere live. The days of being able to walk in to the job centre and 9, into a job interview at 1 and work at 9 the next morning are long gone. Finding a job having only left school is incredibly difficult as there are lots of people going after a very small number of jobs, a lot of them with prior employment and more experience, so employers can be very selective about who the choose, and school leavers with no work history are right down at the bottom of the pile.

[ZOLLAR]

chrisispringles said:

ZOLLAR said:

It's drastic I agree but your options are.

1) Can't afford to drive, don't drive, no job, poor standard of life

2) Can't afford to drive, realise need a job, move somewhere closer, get a job

I know it's not as simple as that but unfortunately that's the situation people face and not surprisingly many people do move.
If you want something you have to make sacrifices and endure hardships unfortunately in this day and age people (young people usually) believe they have a right to everything without hard choices

That last bit isn't aimed at you JB, but it is something I deal with on a day to day basis.

This may seem easy when you've ridden the property bubble all the way up, but when you have no money and no job you cannot afford to move away from home. The deposit on a basic bedsit is more than a months income at minimum wage and not many people's parents have that sort of money to throw at a deposit. Even then, there are no garuntees of work, so you could be racking up debt at the rate of at least £100pw for nothing, just for rent. If you do find work, then your wages will not cover your basic living expenses unless you can get more than minimum wage and 40 hours a week. With the job market the way it is, it's a massive gamble with no returns if you are lucky. If you aren't, then you are in a deep hole with no money and nowhere live. The days of being able to walk in to the job centre and 9, into a job interview at 1 and work at 9 the next morning are long gone. Finding a job having only left school is incredibly difficult as there are lots of people going after a very small number of jobs, a lot of them with prior employment and more experience, so employers can be very selective about who the choose, and school leavers with no work history are right down at the bottom of the pile.

No need to tell me I'm only 25 I've done the whole moving out on my own and start a family thing, but every thing you've listed above is not going to be solved by cheap car insurance.

[ppteddy]

I'm afraid I can't add anything to this other than my sympathy! Insurance is insane these days for youngsters. I remember about 10 years ago an 18 year old I knew passed his test and was about a grand, at the time I thought that was horrific, it appears nowadays that would be good value.

Good luck!

[chrisispringles]

ZOLLAR said:

No need to tell me I'm only 25 I've done the whole moving out on my own and start a family thing, but every thing you've listed above is not going to be solved by cheap car insurance.

Depends on location, I've been turned down from countless jobs because I can't afford a car. The one place who were willing to give me a chance decided that it just wasn't worth the risk employing someone without a car, so someone else got the job. If I'd had a car, I'd probably have got the job. The trouble is that young workers need to be more and more mobile now as competition for jobs increases, but the cost of being mobile enough is now too great for the vast majority. It used to be the case that people in my position could afford to be insured on their parents car, giving them a chance to get some money behind them and take out their own insurance, but now that is gone we have a generation with low employment prospects and no ability to get to work if they don't live in the right place, Britain is heavily dependent on the car, so living without one at the point where you need to be at your most flexible and mobile is incredibly difficult.

[Raize]

chrisispringles said:

ZOLLAR said:

No need to tell me I'm only 25 I've done the whole moving out on my own and start a family thing, but every thing you've listed above is not going to be solved by cheap car insurance.

Depends on location, I've been turned down from countless jobs because I can't afford a car. The one place who were willing to give me a chance decided that it just wasn't worth the risk employing someone without a car, so someone else got the job. If I'd had a car, I'd probably have got the job. The trouble is that young workers need to be more and more mobile now as competition for jobs increases, but the cost of being mobile enough is now too great for the vast majority. It used to be the case that people in my position could afford to be insured on their parents car, giving them a chance to get some money behind them and take out their own insurance, but now that is gone we have a generation with low employment prospects and no ability to get to work if they don't live in the right place, Britain is heavily dependent on the car, so living without one at the point where you need to be at your most flexible and mobile is incredibly difficult.

Live in a cardboard box near your work then peasant!

[Negative Creep]

ppteddy said:

I'm afraid I can't add anything to this other than my sympathy! Insurance is insane these days for youngsters. I remember about 10 years ago an 18 year old I knew passed his test and was about a grand, at the time I thought that was horrific, it appears nowadays that would be good value.

Good luck!

Ten years ago I remember being outraged at having to pay £1200 on my first car. The higher premiums get, the more tempting it is to commit fraud, or simply drive uninsured

[Raize]

Negative Creep said:

Ten years ago I remember being outraged at having to pay £1200 on my first car. The higher premiums get, the more tempting it is to commit fraud, or simply drive uninsured

And the more people who drive uninsured, the worse the premiums get. The obvious solution is much, much MUCH larger fines for uninsured driving that are used to subsidise the insurance industry as a whole.