Cheap "Performance" Diesels?
Discussion
RenesisEvo said:
300bhp/ton said:
Have any car makers actually made a performance diesel car yet?
I would nominate the Mk1 Fabia VRS as a performance diesel, there was no petrol equivalent.EDIT: about 3 seconds too slow posting, see above.
BorkFactor said:
What about that M550xd that BMW released recently? Not even close to the OP's budget though!
I think the term "performance diesel" is used to describe a diesel with a decent bit of shove, rather than a conventional performance orientated engine, if that makes sense.
I know what you mean. Although my idea of a performance car would be something built for performance that just happens to be diesel powered. e.g. I've always thought a purpose built 180-200hp diesel MX-5 would have been quite a good seller. Give it a fruity exhaust/induction note, keep the handling top notch and tune the motor with more sporty gearing and a manual.I think the term "performance diesel" is used to describe a diesel with a decent bit of shove, rather than a conventional performance orientated engine, if that makes sense.
Fast, fun, capable and diesel.
I've previously owned 2 Fabia VRSs and have been looking for a more up to date equivalent for a while. In the end I bought a Kia Pro Cee'd 2.0 CRDi Sport and have been pretty impressed so far. 140bhp and 225ft/lb and chippable up to lots more.
The handling isn't bad either - certainly no worse than the Fabia or my mothers MkIV Golf GT TDi (with sports suspension). Comes with lots of kit as standard too - leather seats, climate, cruise, iPod connection, 17" wheels etc and it's an 08 plate so still 3 years of warranty to go.
The handling isn't bad either - certainly no worse than the Fabia or my mothers MkIV Golf GT TDi (with sports suspension). Comes with lots of kit as standard too - leather seats, climate, cruise, iPod connection, 17" wheels etc and it's an 08 plate so still 3 years of warranty to go.
I loved my Fabia VRS. Out of speed camera 50 zones on the motorway bbbbbbrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Handles OK. Cloth interior may look tatty though on older ones, possibly, being part cream and all that?
Also had a 156 2.4jtd which i liked, strong pulling power, mine had a fairly unpleasant wood steering wheel with different colour wood effect dash. (Cheap though!).
Handles OK. Cloth interior may look tatty though on older ones, possibly, being part cream and all that?
Also had a 156 2.4jtd which i liked, strong pulling power, mine had a fairly unpleasant wood steering wheel with different colour wood effect dash. (Cheap though!).
I followed a Fabia VRS yesterday off a roundabout and it was decently quick. I had to use a fair bit of throttle to keep up (e46 330d remapped to about 230+)
I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
Mr-B said:
I followed a Fabia VRS yesterday off a roundabout and it was decently quick. I had to use a fair bit of throttle to keep up (e46 330d remapped to about 230+)
I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
Sensible remap sees around 30bhp and a decent hike in torque.I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
Mr-B said:
I followed a Fabia VRS yesterday off a roundabout and it was decently quick. I had to use a fair bit of throttle to keep up (e46 330d remapped to about 230+)
I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
This is all perception. I believe the vrs can be chipped/mapped to quite high figures and on such a small/light car it makes a huge difference. I think I recall seeing on another forum a guy taking his vrs to 260bhp! Cost him quite a lot though and turbo lag was a bit excessive
He potentially floored the throttle in a lower gear than you. You didn't initially see him press the throttle do the lag between him flooring it and you seeing him move on would then mean a further lag between you pressing throttle and forward motion. Then you realise he is going for it so you have to use more throttle.
He may be using full 130bhp whereas even though you have 230bhp the throttle position may mean your making less power than him so clearly would lose.next you have to floor it harder to accelerate to a higher speed to catchup and then to overtake cleanly.
This is really why if in a petrol and you do as this e46 owner may have done be caught napping and then to catch up and pass your well into beyond speed limit or at such a pace you don't want to overtake.
I recall an article by steve sutcliffe he was in a Porche 911 c4s 996. Following his friend in the Honda accord 140bhp TDI. It was in b roads. Honda in front and frankly he said the lunge out of the corner by the TDI left him lagging behind then he couldn't overtake safely and was up his chuff. Also it transpired the Honda driver was driving quite relaxed whereas steve had to work the pork hard.
I'm sure in the pork much more fun was had but it does show there reality of pace on our roads.
Welshbeef said:
This is all perception.
He potentially floored the throttle in a lower gear than you. You didn't initially see him press the throttle do the lag between him flooring it and you seeing him move on would then mean a further lag between you pressing throttle and forward motion. Then you realise he is going for it so you have to use more throttle.
He may be using full 130bhp whereas even though you have 230bhp the throttle position may mean your making less power than him so clearly would lose.next you have to floor it harder to accelerate to a higher speed to catchup and then to overtake cleanly.
This is really why if in a petrol and you do as this e46 owner may have done be caught napping and then to catch up and pass your well into beyond speed limit or at such a pace you don't want to overtake.
I recall an article by steve sutcliffe he was in a Porche 911 c4s 996. Following his friend in the Honda accord 140bhp TDI. It was in b roads. Honda in front and frankly he said the lunge out of the corner by the TDI left him lagging behind then he couldn't overtake safely and was up his chuff. Also it transpired the Honda driver was driving quite relaxed whereas steve had to work the pork hard.
I'm sure in the pork much more fun was had but it does show there reality of pace on our roads.
I don't think there was much 'lag' between us, I had already made my mind up I was going to get up to speed quickly as I came off the island right behind the VRS. As we came off the island line astern there was another car ahead that we overtook together and judging by his line immediately off the roundabout I guessed he was going to overtake this other car. I know he was pushing it too judging by the smoke from his exhaust.He potentially floored the throttle in a lower gear than you. You didn't initially see him press the throttle do the lag between him flooring it and you seeing him move on would then mean a further lag between you pressing throttle and forward motion. Then you realise he is going for it so you have to use more throttle.
He may be using full 130bhp whereas even though you have 230bhp the throttle position may mean your making less power than him so clearly would lose.next you have to floor it harder to accelerate to a higher speed to catchup and then to overtake cleanly.
This is really why if in a petrol and you do as this e46 owner may have done be caught napping and then to catch up and pass your well into beyond speed limit or at such a pace you don't want to overtake.
I recall an article by steve sutcliffe he was in a Porche 911 c4s 996. Following his friend in the Honda accord 140bhp TDI. It was in b roads. Honda in front and frankly he said the lunge out of the corner by the TDI left him lagging behind then he couldn't overtake safely and was up his chuff. Also it transpired the Honda driver was driving quite relaxed whereas steve had to work the pork hard.
I'm sure in the pork much more fun was had but it does show there reality of pace on our roads.
We were not 'racing' in any way and I could probably have out dragged him had I really pushed it, but I would have had to give it max to do so and didn't actually want to do that, I wanted to keep up just to gauge how quick he was. I'd heard they were nippy little motors and they are.
Toffer said:
Maybe a daft suggestion...but would you not be better off buying an economical performance petrol car? Lower fuel and maintenance costs and more choice? Just a thought.
Standard PH response. In answer to the OP: You can get leggy 204bhp 330Ds for under £3k now and when I say leggy, I mean 250K + on the clock!
You can also get Audio 2.5 V6 TDI for similar amounts, but I don't think its quite as nice as the 330Ds, also a bit under powered compared to the later 330Ds too.
Saab 93 Aero TTID is also worth a shout. Twin turbos with 180bhp and easily tunable to 200 plus.
Welshbeef said:
I recall an article by steve sutcliffe he was in a Porche 911 c4s 996. Following his friend in the Honda accord 140bhp TDI. It was in b roads. Honda in front and frankly he said the lunge out of the corner by the TDI left him lagging behind then he couldn't overtake safely and was up his chuff. Also it transpired the Honda driver was driving quite relaxed whereas steve had to work the pork hard.
I'm sure in the pork much more fun was had but it does show there reality of pace on our roads.
This sounds quite relevant to one of the posts on the GT86 thread where one poster said he couldn't pass a diesel Vectra...I'm sure in the pork much more fun was had but it does show there reality of pace on our roads.
Maybe not that supprising really.
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