RE: Jaguar XJ220 - the inside story

[hethelred]

For XJ220 fans here is a rare modified yellow XJ220 at Goodwood Breakfast Club Supercar sunday:
http://flic.kr/p/bUN1ay
Along with several other XJ220's at the same meet:
http://flic.kr/p/bUMZWf

Edited by hethelred on Tuesday 14th August 23:14

[Stedman]

XJ220 was damaged at Brands a few days ago. The OSR wheel came away...

[GTRene]

hethelred said:

For XJ220 fans here is a rare modified yellow XJ220 at Goodwood Breakfast Club Supercar sunday:
http://flic.kr/p/bUN1ay
Along with several other XJ220's at the same meet:
http://flic.kr/p/bUMZWf

Edited by hethelred on Tuesday 14th August 23:14

The car in the First link (yellow) is the more special, S version.

[Zero7]

The green one I saw out of my window last week lives on my estate, just seen it twice again this week,,,,,. It sounds epic,..

[monthefish]

Best car ever.

[chopster1]

check this out http://www.anamera.com/en/detail/car/137878/index....

Edited by chopster1 on Saturday 18th August 21:39

[Ayahuasca]

The styling of the rear end is horrendous. Like Kelly Brook's face and body but Dawn French's arse.

If I had to choose an 80's/90's fast Jaguar I would have an XJR15 all day long.

[GTRene]

wasn't that one for sale?
indeed a very nice Jag.

ah...same one or same looks

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C211949

[AAGR]

Apologies for being a bit late in adding to this debate .... but as someone who was 'at the sharp end' when the XJ220 was being designed, I can add/define some details :

• As far as I know, the original 1988 'Motor Show' car (complete wih V12 engine and four-wheel-drive) had not turned a wheel when it went on display.

• Not only that, but I hear (but cannot confirm) that it has never been driven, under its own power, ever since then.

• When TWR proposed that a 'production version' was developed, they soon discovered the truth about the project car, which was soon condemned as being too large, too heavy, unnecessarily complex, and would have taken three or four years to develop.

• Tom Walkinshaw hired Mike Moreton as project manager - and since Mike had just completed the same job on Ford's Group B RS200 he was ideally suited for it. Mike was just one of a tiny team which concluded that a smaller, simpler but equally powerful car (as eventually launched) would do the job.

• As I was (i) lucky enough to be running an RS200 road car at the time, and (ii) since Mike Moreton was a long-term chum, maybe it was obvious that 'my' RS200 should be loaned to TWR for some time while they re-studied the problems of small-scale production of such cars.

• When the decision was made to produce 350 production XJ220s, it was ALWAYS on the base of using the much-developed V6 engine, allied to rear-wheel-drive, in a much smaller/lighter monocoque. When the dealer chain, and by definition the potential customers, were told that the car was to be produced, it was ALWAYS made very clear that it would be in V6/RWD format. There was never any question of customers being cheated out of the car which they thought they had ordered. The orders which were solicited always made the V6/RWD format totally clear.

• Finally, I should make it clear that the V6 engine was a directly productionised version of that engine which had been produced by TWR for its XJR10 race cars. TWR had bought the rights for the MG Metro 6R4 engine from Austin-Rover.

• There was absolutely no link with the GM/Rover V8 engine - this confusion arising because the very first MG 6R4 prototype car used a cut-and-shut version of that engine. The definitive 6R4 engine had used a bottom end mostly engineered by David Wood, but Cosworth was responsible for the layout and detailing of the cylinder heads, porting, camshaft design, heads/valve gear/etc - but were never allowed to say so because of a confidentality agreement (whoops, what have I just said ....?).

• The XJ220 which went on sale was totally engineered by TWR (or JaguarSport, as that subsidiary was known for a time) at the factory at Bloxham, under Mike Moreton's direction. As far as I know, the mainstream Jaguar organisation, and certainly not the 'Saturday Club' enthusiasts, were never involved.

• The deposit, by the way, was not £50,000, but £50,000 + VAT. I know this because I was drafted in to Bloxham for the hectic weeks before Christmas 1989 when the order book opened up, and helped the sales/engineering team to deal with the rush of customers.

Edited by AAGR on Saturday 18th August 22:45

Edited by AAGR on Saturday 18th August 22:46

[ErnstBlofeld]

Given that the XJ220 was a relative failure, the Walkinshaw connection to the car, and to the A-M DB7, you wonder if FoMoCo didn't miss a trick by not asking Mr Tom and Mr Callum to recycle the car into a range-topping mid-engined Aston. That V6 would have had to disappear, though. Wonder if that ol' twin supercharged Vantage V8 would have fitted? Sell the A-M for 50% more than the Jag and there might have been the chance of making money from the whole project. Cynical of course, but no more so than the DB7...

[GTRene]

Interesting read AA (the PH JA ;-)), thx for sharing, that clears up some things.

[Dr JonboyG]

Just to add to the "people thought they were getting a V12 AWD" meme, a friend of the family at the time was on the list, and knew full well it was going to be a V6 and RWD, it was the failing economy and the thought of being stuck with a car he couldn't afford that was the reason he (and most of the others) pulled out.

[Johnnytheboy]

Interesting fact AAGR has omitted (I know him) is that he was tentatively asked by Mike Moreton to run a road car for endurance purposes (the basis on which he'd had the RS200s), but the idea was speedily dropped when it became clear that due to the law of the land he would probably never be able to use in any gear higher than third - and that it was also clear that this would be the widest private car ever to be used on British roads!

Knowing the area of Dorset he lives in, this would be a pain.

[RufMD]

AAGR, fantastic info thanks !


Do you know who TWR used for their carbon fiber panel needs ? Would be great to find out who manufactured the original CF panels for the xj220 S. If anyone knows of any ex-twr employees or engineers please forward details...part of the passion is learning the story behind the cars. Fascinating to read the ahem Cosworth link. Zytec did the engine management software/ECU I've learned...a '93 spec toshiba laptop is needed to run the codes in DOS

[F1GTRUeno]

GTRene said:

hethelred said:

For XJ220 fans here is a rare modified yellow XJ220 at Goodwood Breakfast Club Supercar sunday:
http://flic.kr/p/bUN1ay
Along with several other XJ220's at the same meet:
http://flic.kr/p/bUMZWf

Edited by hethelred on Tuesday 14th August 23:14

The car in the First link (yellow) is the more special, S version.

No it isn't.

It just has the S front bodywork.

[F1GTRUeno]

[redacted]

[F1GTRUeno]

Could well be it's been upgraded with S parts but they only originally made 5 and one more from an unused C chassis (that's 801) so any others are just mods and couldn't be called an S, Max Coopers old one being similar to this.

Still a lovely thing though and insane power too.

[SteveO220]

AAGR said:

Apologies for being a bit late in adding to this debate .... but as someone who was 'at the sharp end' when the XJ220 was being designed, I can add/define some details :

• As far as I know, the original 1988 'Motor Show' car (complete wih V12 engine and four-wheel-drive) had not turned a wheel when it went on display.

• Not only that, but I hear (but cannot confirm) that it has never been driven, under its own power, ever since then.

• When TWR proposed that a 'production version' was developed, they soon discovered the truth about the project car, which was soon condemned as being too large, too heavy, unnecessarily complex, and would have taken three or four years to develop.

• Tom Walkinshaw hired Mike Moreton as project manager - and since Mike had just completed the same job on Ford's Group B RS200 he was ideally suited for it. Mike was just one of a tiny team which concluded that a smaller, simpler but equally powerful car (as eventually launched) would do the job.

• As I was (i) lucky enough to be running an RS200 road car at the time, and (ii) since Mike Moreton was a long-term chum, maybe it was obvious that 'my' RS200 should be loaned to TWR for some time while they re-studied the problems of small-scale production of such cars.

• When the decision was made to produce 350 production XJ220s, it was ALWAYS on the base of using the much-developed V6 engine, allied to rear-wheel-drive, in a much smaller/lighter monocoque. When the dealer chain, and by definition the potential customers, were told that the car was to be produced, it was ALWAYS made very clear that it would be in V6/RWD format. There was never any question of customers being cheated out of the car which they thought they had ordered. The orders which were solicited always made the V6/RWD format totally clear.

• Finally, I should make it clear that the V6 engine was a directly productionised version of that engine which had been produced by TWR for its XJR10 race cars. TWR had bought the rights for the MG Metro 6R4 engine from Austin-Rover.

• There was absolutely no link with the GM/Rover V8 engine - this confusion arising because the very first MG 6R4 prototype car used a cut-and-shut version of that engine. The definitive 6R4 engine had used a bottom end mostly engineered by David Wood, but Cosworth was responsible for the layout and detailing of the cylinder heads, porting, camshaft design, heads/valve gear/etc - but were never allowed to say so because of a confidentality agreement (whoops, what have I just said ....?).

• The XJ220 which went on sale was totally engineered by TWR (or JaguarSport, as that subsidiary was known for a time) at the factory at Bloxham, under Mike Moreton's direction. As far as I know, the mainstream Jaguar organisation, and certainly not the 'Saturday Club' enthusiasts, were never involved.

• The deposit, by the way, was not £50,000, but £50,000 + VAT. I know this because I was drafted in to Bloxham for the hectic weeks before Christmas 1989 when the order book opened up, and helped the sales/engineering team to deal with the rush of customers.

Many thanks for the contribution. It is good to hear from people who were involved in the project -putting right many of the false rumours that have surrounded the car for a long time (and depressed values as a result). Could you cast any light on the engine? I have always thought that the design derived directly from the 6R4, though someone recently told me that this is not entirely correct, that TWR developed the engine separately and bought the 6R4 rights just to tidy up the IP.

[Stedman]

Any of you lot at Brands Hatch on Tuesday?

[alangla]

[redacted]