RE: PH Blog: joy of specs
Discussion
jamespink said:
Has everyone gone mad? £20k you can buy a really great car: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4121310.htm
I dont get it either. Why *do* people buy or lease brand new cars? For 20k you can get a top-of-the line 370z on an 09 plate with less than 20 thousand miles. Thats a 10k saving over the 'Base' model. And what do you lose? The smell of a new car? Anything else? Maybe you inherit a few stone chips and a slightly worn seat bolster from the previous owners wide-ar$e, but with Nissan build quality and reliability thats about all. Ok - maybe a few squeaks and rattles 
Honestly anyone who buys a new 'Base' model car instead of a two-year old top-spec one needs a slap?! If this had been released at the same time as the higher spec 370z back in 2009 i would applaud Nissan for doing it. With fantastic low-mileage second hand Zeds available now and still under warranty, i cant see why anyone would buy a 'new' base model 370z?
Took one out today from the Toyota dealership in Bracknell. It's a wonderful steer, but the example I drove came in at £27.5K. That's just too much IMO and doesn't feel like it's worth that much at all. If it was £18 to £20,000 on the other hand, I would have one in a heartbeat.
Coming from an Elise, it feels like a grown up version that I could use everyday, but still has a magnificent mechanical feel, plus the driving position is near on perfect.
I would take the 370 for £30K
Coming from an Elise, it feels like a grown up version that I could use everyday, but still has a magnificent mechanical feel, plus the driving position is near on perfect.
I would take the 370 for £30K
Whilst i dont want to dig up threads of old, how many people jumped on the bandwagon saying the 86 was good value for money (even though it was quite a bit over initial estimates) and what kind of spec, power etc do you expect to get in this price bracket!
I think Nissan have just answered your question for you
Imo i think this makes the 86 look very expensive!
I think Nissan have just answered your question for you
Imo i think this makes the 86 look very expensive!
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the Subaru and Toyota. A brand new car, 5 year warranty, cheap servicing, cheap tyres (try finding cheap 265/35/19s for your 370z), modest road tax and fuel consumption. And above all else it's not how fast you get from A to B that matters; it's the fun you have doing it.
Don't get why people fixate on running costs. Biggest cost with either car, any car in fact is depreciation. Imagine either will lose in the 40-50% bracket over 3 years meaning you'll lose a bit more in the Nissan. For what it's worth servicing on my 350Z was very reasonable from Nissan (i.e <£200), set of 4 tyres was around £750 & road tax was in the top £400+ bracket. However as either car will lose you over £10,000 in the same time period the above is insignificant.
SonicHedgeHog said:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the Subaru and Toyota.
And above all else it's not how fast you get from A to B that matters; it's the fun you have doing it.
The "missing the point" comment is the most infuriating thing i hear these days, no car has a "point", its all about what an owner wants, how many people have hyper cars that can see the wrong side of 200mph and they most likely never get past 100mph, is that missing the point? How many people have Range Rovers and never see a field, is that missing the point?And above all else it's not how fast you get from A to B that matters; it's the fun you have doing it.
As you so wisely say at the end, "its the fun you have" and that to some may be seeing how fast they can get from A to B and for some it may the ride along the way, each to their own and banding the "missing the point" comment about doesnt and never will justify a car or its conception!
andyvvc said:
I dont get it either. Why *do* people buy or lease brand new cars? For 20k you can get a top-of-the line 370z on an 09 plate with less than 20 thousand miles. Thats a 10k saving over the 'Base' model. And what do you lose? The smell of a new car? Anything else? Maybe you inherit a few stone chips and a slightly worn seat bolster from the previous owners wide-ar$e, but with Nissan build quality and reliability thats about all. Ok - maybe a few squeaks and rattles ?
But where do these bargin used cars come from if no-one buys new cars?The 'point' of the Toyota and Subaru is affordable new car thrills. £750 (which is still a lot of money given how many you get through) for a set of tyres would be a bargain on the 370z - have a look on the Internet.
High running costs ruin a car for me. £70 in petrol every 200 miles just makes me hate the car and not want to use it. The same is true with tyres - £1000 for a set of four or £450 road tax to use the same roads a Fiat 500 driver uses for free.
Depreciation is inevitable but the compensation is having a brand new car with full warranty. High running costs are due to poor design and the choice of the owner. Horses for courses.
High running costs ruin a car for me. £70 in petrol every 200 miles just makes me hate the car and not want to use it. The same is true with tyres - £1000 for a set of four or £450 road tax to use the same roads a Fiat 500 driver uses for free.
Depreciation is inevitable but the compensation is having a brand new car with full warranty. High running costs are due to poor design and the choice of the owner. Horses for courses.
RX7 said:
That is the "point" to you, maybe not someone else!
That sentence makes no sense. The 'point' i.e. the design brief for the car was affordable, sensible speed fun. What I or anyone else looks for in a car is irrelevant. That is why it is stupid to criticise the Toyota and Subaru for not being something they were never intended to be. Judge them for what they were designed to be and not what you'd like them to be.SonicHedgeHog said:
RX7 said:
That is the "point" to you, maybe not someone else!
That sentence makes no sense. The 'point' i.e. the design brief for the car was affordable, sensible speed fun. What I or anyone else looks for in a car is irrelevant. That is why it is stupid to criticise the Toyota and Subaru for not being something they were never intended to be. Judge them for what they were designed to be and not what you'd like them to be.dapearson said:
I'd rather have an M135i for the same £30k
Good point!If you can really leave the BMW dealership without having ticked ANY options on this, it would definitely be worth considering at just under £30k. Might have a bit of an issue at re-sale time but otherwise a definite contender.
ETA A brand new WRX STi lists at £32,995
Edited by BuzzLightyear on Thursday 9th August 19:48
SonicHedgeHog said:
That sentence makes no sense. The 'point' i.e. the design brief for the car was affordable, sensible speed fun. What I or anyone else looks for in a car is irrelevant. That is why it is stupid to criticise the Toyota and Subaru for not being something they were never intended to be. Judge them for what they were designed to be and not what you'd like them to be.
As said before which you choose to ignore, a Range Rover (as one example) is designed to be a very very good off road vehicle to be used in such a fashion, so if you dont go off road, is that missing the "point", what you or anyone looks for in a car is THE most relevant thing, surely?The point to any vehicle is what the owner wants from it, maybe they want a RR for the comfort factor, maybe they want it to keep up with the Jonses or pose down the wine bar, who cares what the intended design brief is, we dont all have to be swayed by marketing hype and design briefs!
It may have been pitched as an affordable, sensible speed fun car (your take), but i hardly think £27k is affordable to many, had it been launched at its intended price point, i think they may well have been closer to the "point" or "your point", i am not criticising the car, i am criticising the price, which many others have and everyones justification then was, what do you expect for the money and Nissan have showed again, more doesnt have to necessarily have to cost more! Same as the GTR!
If the 86 fits the bill for you and fulfils a design brief that you want, then great, but the point to any car is only what an owner wants, not a car itself!
Polrules said:
Don't get why people fixate on running costs. Biggest cost with either car, any car in fact is depreciation. Imagine either will lose in the 40-50% bracket over 3 years meaning you'll lose a bit more in the Nissan. For what it's worth servicing on my 350Z was very reasonable from Nissan (i.e <£200), set of 4 tyres was around £750 & road tax was in the top £400+ bracket. However as either car will lose you over £10,000 in the same time period the above is insignificant.
Damage limitation isn't it?I reckon the difference between the two, for 12k miles pa, would easily be over £3.5k over 3 years. Hardly insignificant and if it's a company car then the tax implications will be higher too.
People focus on running costs as it all adds up to what a car is going to cost over 3 years. The Nissan is a great car but I for one would never consider it over a GT86. I'm not sure I fancy a GT86 over my MK3 MR2 but I very much doubt the handling of the Nissan would be worth my spending an extra £3.5k over.
SonicHedgeHog said:
Funny old thing, that's exactly what I'm doing at the moment.
I'm not finished with my Mk2 yet, but the £21k I spent on a coupe last year went on a 3.5 year old XKR. There's always better value used cars you can find than the new ones, but I'm very grateful to the money-allergic fellow who spunked over 70k on it new so that I could grab a bargain, and it'll be the same deal for those who put money towards a new Subarota or Zed now.
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