Discussion
Rob282828 said:
Maybe i shouldn't have wrote about the lightweight steering wheel. 
However if removing weight won't affect top speed then surely it'll have a positive impact on handling and lap times? This is the Veyrons main problem.
Where did you get that the handling and lap times is the Veyrons main problem? I'm pretty sure that's not even remotely true.However if removing weight won't affect top speed then surely it'll have a positive impact on handling and lap times? This is the Veyrons main problem.
I've never read its handling is bad or its lap times are slow - that's just what you perceive.
And your original point is about top speed and not lap times - the others you mention aren't exactly Radicals...
It doesn't have a problem apart from its hype annoying people and too many special editions along with the much questioned running cost discussion.
rpguk said:
For all the piss taking I think the OP has a very good point. Why don't we sey the top supercar of all time in more high profile racing?
A) It's f
king expensive just to buy, nevermind prep, and race prep would really only be allowed to make it slower...B) Bugatti don't like comparisons with other cars, so there would be little or no factory support. Also, it's already the world's fastest car, why would they want to race it?
C) It would devour tyres, even road tyres have to be replaced frequently, every 15(?) minutes at speed, a set of slicks would be obliterated far too quickly with all the extra abuse of racing.
Pommygranite said:
Where did you get that the handling and lap times is the Veyrons main problem? I'm pretty sure that's not even remotely true.
I've never read its handling is bad or its lap times are slow - that's just what you perceive.
The handling is not at all bad and never are the lap times, but they could be inproved upon with weight reduction and so on.I've never read its handling is bad or its lap times are slow - that's just what you perceive.
I think Auocar entered one into the Bugatti owners club hillclimns at shesley walsh, but it couldnt set a competative time since it had electronic throttles, so they couldnt fit return springs to prevent the throttles sticking open.
So even if a privateer (maybe fridays winner, who has more then sufficient funds available to enter it into club rscing) might have some unexpected problems getting the car past scrutineering and might say "sod it. I'll buy an F40 and race that instead..."
So even if a privateer (maybe fridays winner, who has more then sufficient funds available to enter it into club rscing) might have some unexpected problems getting the car past scrutineering and might say "sod it. I'll buy an F40 and race that instead..."
To be fair to OP, a lot of people have wondered the same thing over the years. Unsurprisingly, it comes down to cost - let's have a think about some factors-
tyres - like the road tyres ($25k a set), slicks would probably be ridiculously expensive as they would be bespoke to the car.
weight - sure, weight saving can be made by removing cosmetic items and the like, but you wouldn't be able to save much because so much of the internals are integral to the running of the powertrain. If you wanted things like perspex windows and seats they would most likely cost a bomb again as they would be bespoke.
there's probably also load of electronic control systems that people might consider unnecessary, but then you have to counter that with how you deal with a very advanced computer system that might not like bits being chopped up.
performance - if you consider that the veyron is designed specifically to aerodynamically handle the top speed, if you start adding wings and splitters it's logical to assume that things would go balls up pretty quickly. so another item for the shopping list would be adrian newey, because if the aero actually needed improving it would take some work.
as for things like brakes, suspension, well after you've removed all the heavy and expensive computer controlled bits you'd have to find replacements that are both compatible and actually better than the stock.
so let's say at the cost of a squillion bucks and your wife, you actually have a racing veyron. The next problem is where the hell do you race it? the majority of serious racing series these days are regulated heavily. There is no chance that a 4wd, 1000/1200bhp 260mph car would be allowed in without restriction.
and then if you actually make it into a series, what next? say you get a puncture and spit it into the barriers. Firstly you've got to convince bugatti, who probably hate you by now, to sell you replacement parts. then you've got to pay for them.
so in short, you need a lot of money, a lobotomy, good relations with VAG and the FIA. and i haven't even begun to think about what would happen if you wanted to tune up the w16.
there you go, that's all off the top of my head man maths so if anyone wants to correct me then feel free. HTH op
tyres - like the road tyres ($25k a set), slicks would probably be ridiculously expensive as they would be bespoke to the car.
weight - sure, weight saving can be made by removing cosmetic items and the like, but you wouldn't be able to save much because so much of the internals are integral to the running of the powertrain. If you wanted things like perspex windows and seats they would most likely cost a bomb again as they would be bespoke.
there's probably also load of electronic control systems that people might consider unnecessary, but then you have to counter that with how you deal with a very advanced computer system that might not like bits being chopped up.
performance - if you consider that the veyron is designed specifically to aerodynamically handle the top speed, if you start adding wings and splitters it's logical to assume that things would go balls up pretty quickly. so another item for the shopping list would be adrian newey, because if the aero actually needed improving it would take some work.
as for things like brakes, suspension, well after you've removed all the heavy and expensive computer controlled bits you'd have to find replacements that are both compatible and actually better than the stock.
so let's say at the cost of a squillion bucks and your wife, you actually have a racing veyron. The next problem is where the hell do you race it? the majority of serious racing series these days are regulated heavily. There is no chance that a 4wd, 1000/1200bhp 260mph car would be allowed in without restriction.
and then if you actually make it into a series, what next? say you get a puncture and spit it into the barriers. Firstly you've got to convince bugatti, who probably hate you by now, to sell you replacement parts. then you've got to pay for them.
so in short, you need a lot of money, a lobotomy, good relations with VAG and the FIA. and i haven't even begun to think about what would happen if you wanted to tune up the w16.
there you go, that's all off the top of my head man maths so if anyone wants to correct me then feel free. HTH op
Dusty964 said:
Mainly- I suspect- because it weighs 1800 odd kg, and it would be bhp restricted in order to race.
This. The McLaren MP4-12C GT car makes less power on the race track than the road car does, as an example. The Bugatti was never designed to race, but to travel exceptionally quickly in a fashion that made that speed accessible to anyone who was reasonably competent behind the wheel.
Some amazingly wierd understanding of physics hereabouts.
like reducing the weight will increase the top speed. Err durr, no it wont. It could weight a tonne more, and it would get to the same top speed, but simply take longer to get there.
Top speed on a veyron is limited by amount of excess torque to overcome resistive loads, and the resistive loads themselves (mostly aerodynamic drag at that speed)
(BTW anyone who talks about horsepower is just spouting bks. Horsepower is a meaningless figure which is calculated from the torque. The only thing that matters at any engine revs is excess torque. Discussions about "torque is good at low revs and power is good at high revs" is just meaningless fantasyland cr*p.)
like reducing the weight will increase the top speed. Err durr, no it wont. It could weight a tonne more, and it would get to the same top speed, but simply take longer to get there.
Top speed on a veyron is limited by amount of excess torque to overcome resistive loads, and the resistive loads themselves (mostly aerodynamic drag at that speed)
(BTW anyone who talks about horsepower is just spouting b
ks. Horsepower is a meaningless figure which is calculated from the torque. The only thing that matters at any engine revs is excess torque. Discussions about "torque is good at low revs and power is good at high revs" is just meaningless fantasyland cr*p.)
williamp said:
I think Autocar entered one into the Bugatti owners club hillclimns at shesley walsh, but it couldnt set a competative time since it had electronic throttles, so they couldnt fit return springs to prevent the throttles sticking open.
O/T but this is an interesting point - does this mean that over time, there will be a cut-off point for cars that can't be entered because they have fly-by-wire throttles? This can't be good for the future of the sport. The Veyron is an overweight technical tour de force whose main appeal is to teenage boys and the Eurotrash and Gulf hyper rich who buy it to impress their girlfriends. It was slower than a R500 at TG test track and in terms of outright speed would be annihilated around virtually any track- other than one with no ..erm ..bends by a cheap as chips secondhand Formula Renault or Jedi. It weighs an obscene amount and to make it a racer would involve turning it into something which was no longer a Veyron. For an example of how this exercise should be done look no further that the sublime McLaren F1
Rob282828 said:
Thanks for all the replies guys, now i can see why this is and isn't a good idea. Couldn't Bugatti do a racing series like Ferrari do with their cars? This would create a little income to help with the production costs. Perhaps a silly idea but i don't know!!
If they were worried about cost they could simply double the price, at their end of the market it is just numbers on a page...Most of the buyers wouldn't notice...
RenesisEvo said:
O/T but this is an interesting point - does this mean that over time, there will be a cut-off point for cars that can't be entered because they have fly-by-wire throttles? This can't be good for the future of the sport.
They did a demo run in car magazine up prescot hill and it did a pretty good time iirc, Bugatti supplied the car also so they don't mind abit of sport lol. Rob282828 said:
Thanks for all the replies guys, now i can see why this is and isn't a good idea. Couldn't Bugatti do a racing series like Ferrari do with their cars? This would create a little income to help with the production costs. Perhaps a silly idea but i don't know!!
Having once endured a pantomime race at Donington for 'gentleman ' drivers in Diablos I think you'd find watching paint dry more entertaining. I may be in a minority but coming from the Chapman school of added lightness I think the Veyron is grotesque. Who cares about VW getting some income- tney made the bloody thing at a loss to prove a point. They thought it was to bathe in the glory of making the fastest car in the world -but I think the only point made was to confirm that more isn't always better. RenesisEvo said:
williamp said:
I think Autocar entered one into the Bugatti owners club hillclimns at shesley walsh, but it couldnt set a competative time since it had electronic throttles, so they couldnt fit return springs to prevent the throttles sticking open.
O/T but this is an interesting point - does this mean that over time, there will be a cut-off point for cars that can't be entered because they have fly-by-wire throttles? This can't be good for the future of the sport. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff