Second hand dealer experience
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
Two questions,
1. How much do you think the trader can get when he sells a 6 year old Citroen with 70,000 miles on it?
2. If you were buying and selling old cars like that for a living, and having to give the statutory warranty on each one, how much mark-up would you think "reasonable"?
OzOs
Re #2, do used cars in the Uk automatically have some sort of warranty? Over here you can get some type of universal warranty with a purchase, but that normally only applies on cars over 5K, with cheap bangers you are pretty much dependant on what the seller wants to do for you.1. How much do you think the trader can get when he sells a 6 year old Citroen with 70,000 miles on it?
2. If you were buying and selling old cars like that for a living, and having to give the statutory warranty on each one, how much mark-up would you think "reasonable"?
OzOs
Vitorio said:
Re #2, do used cars in the Uk automatically have some sort of warranty? Over here you can get some type of universal warranty with a purchase, but that normally only applies on cars over 5K, with cheap bangers you are pretty much dependant on what the seller wants to do for you.
It's a grey area on used cars; no absolutes. There is legislation but it doesn't define warranty levels of protection.From a branded manufacturer dealer (e.g. Audi) you would get a manufacturer backed warranty.
From a trader, they vary hugely (mostly on reputation) but at most car values, it is probably best to assume you have no warranty and everything else is a bonus,.
Privately, no protection.
hora said:
StottyZr said:
Whats wrong with your C4? Going to a 1.6 Focus seems like quite a sidestep, especially for a £5900 cost of change.
I totally agree.OP - tell us your requirements and let's see what we can find for you?
e.g. 6k budget max, must have 5 doors, 2 baby seats, do 50 miles commute so prefer diesel, etc...
You'd be amazed at what the collective PH can find for you
One month to cover engine & gearbox. It largely depends on the value and age of the car. If the car is still 'fit for purpose' and is worth under £5,000, trading standards would't entertain too bigger a complaint should you have one, to some extent they are there to protect the vendor's liability as well as the consumer.
Ozzie Osmond said:
2. If you were buying and selling old cars like that for a living, and having to give the statutory warranty on each one, how much mark-up would you think "reasonable"?
There is no statutory requirement to give a warranty on a used car.The buyer might have statutory "sale of goods" rights, but that's rather different from a warranty.
ajb85 said:
Not all porkies. C4s are not popular cars at all, and this reflects in their residual values. They are following the same form as the old Xsara, which were never worth a w*nk after 2 years. Having said that, I sold plenty of C4s new when at a main agent, now trading in used cars I wouldn't go near one.
I understand that the C4 is less desirable then the golf's, astra's and focus's. But it's not like I'm flogging them a Daewoo. It's a 6 year old family hatch, neutral colour and lowish mileage. Surely can't be that hard to flog on the forecourt. C'mon £1400 sounds crazy.McHaggis said:
Especially for only 18 months newer.
OP - tell us your requirements and let's see what we can find for you?
e.g. 6k budget max, must have 5 doors, 2 baby seats, do 50 miles commute so prefer diesel, etc...
You'd be amazed at what the collective PH can find for you
Right.OP - tell us your requirements and let's see what we can find for you?
e.g. 6k budget max, must have 5 doors, 2 baby seats, do 50 miles commute so prefer diesel, etc...
You'd be amazed at what the collective PH can find for you
Budget 5k + px exchange.
Not too fussed on practicality
Do around 100-150 miles a week.
Must handle well
Like sporty looks, bit of a boy racer at heart. Big wheels and tints!
Any suggestions?
iqwerty said:
ajb85 said:
Not all porkies. C4s are not popular cars at all, and this reflects in their residual values. They are following the same form as the old Xsara, which were never worth a w*nk after 2 years. Having said that, I sold plenty of C4s new when at a main agent, now trading in used cars I wouldn't go near one.
I understand that the C4 is less desirable then the golf's, astra's and focus's. But it's not like I'm flogging them a Daewoo. It's a 6 year old family hatch, neutral colour and lowish mileage. Surely can't be that hard to flog on the forecourt. C'mon £1400 sounds crazy.£1400 is around CAP average for your car. If you'd come to our place we would probably have offered similar, fact is used Citroens apart from C1s are undesirable.
It may sound arrogant but we do pick our deals in the trade, if the garage you are looking at has had lots of interest in the Focus and has confidence in it then he has every right to choose the deal thats best for him.
Must admit I find peoples reactions quite amusing when we tell them we don't want their car and would rather keep the one we have. Of course every deal and every car is different.
It may sound arrogant but we do pick our deals in the trade, if the garage you are looking at has had lots of interest in the Focus and has confidence in it then he has every right to choose the deal thats best for him.
Must admit I find peoples reactions quite amusing when we tell them we don't want their car and would rather keep the one we have. Of course every deal and every car is different.
iqwerty said:
Right.
Budget 5k + px exchange.
Not too fussed on practicality
Do around 100-150 miles a week.
Must handle well
Like sporty looks, bit of a boy racer at heart. Big wheels and tints!
Any suggestions?
So why the hell are you looking at a 1.6 Focus! No that they're bad cars, but....Budget 5k + px exchange.
Not too fussed on practicality
Do around 100-150 miles a week.
Must handle well
Like sporty looks, bit of a boy racer at heart. Big wheels and tints!
Any suggestions?
Say 6.5k budget all in opens all sorts of doors, specially if you fancy going a bit older.
Infact, my 08 Clio 197 Cup cost about that with 34k on it.
I have part exchanged cars twice and on both occassions I got more than the dealer ended up selling it for.
The first time the dealer just paid too much, gave me £3150 for it, put it up for £3500 and then in the end it was 2750 before it disappeared off his site.
Second time the dealer rang his partner to get a part exchange price and told him it was a seat leon not an ibiza, the guy offered 3800 for it which was far more than I expected so I said yes, he then realised his mistake when he HPI'ed it and it came back as an ibiza which brought his valuation down to £3100 which was more what I was expecting. His car wasn't one that I really really wanted though so I said i'd walk away, guy honored the original price as we had shaken on it and when he put it up for sale it was up for 3700, top bloke to be fair.
The first time the dealer just paid too much, gave me £3150 for it, put it up for £3500 and then in the end it was 2750 before it disappeared off his site.
Second time the dealer rang his partner to get a part exchange price and told him it was a seat leon not an ibiza, the guy offered 3800 for it which was far more than I expected so I said yes, he then realised his mistake when he HPI'ed it and it came back as an ibiza which brought his valuation down to £3100 which was more what I was expecting. His car wasn't one that I really really wanted though so I said i'd walk away, guy honored the original price as we had shaken on it and when he put it up for sale it was up for 3700, top bloke to be fair.
I know a couple of used car dealers.Each business has a big site on a main road,own workshops,6-7 staff each,40-50 cars always in stock with values ranging from 3k to 80K!!most cars on display are 10K-25K popular models.(start doing your sums?)Every car gets a workshop check over,mechanical repairs,damaged panels resprayed,etc etc.Then they sit on the forecourt getting wet.Big adverts in local papers,web sites etc.If he sold each car in days he would be rich but of course a lot can stick around,too long and they are offloaded at the auctions.As soon as cars are sold more have to be purchased.Used car dealers are like any other business they have got to make a profit,build up a good reputation,have a large varied attractive stock,keep customers happy,keep the tax man happy?? as the VAT element in used cars is open to strict scrutiny.The people to watch are the "private" dealers,selling dodgy cars from home and ripping people off.
McHaggis said:
£2600 for one with lower mileage:
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Think it through:
Say you settle for £1600.
Assume he needs to spend £300 bringing up to forecourt std = £1900 cost. Puts it on the forecourt for £3200, leaves room to haggle to £2800.
That's £900 profit, less his overheads, any warranty costs he has to buy (or risk he takes), tax, etc.
Probably leaves him £600 net profit?
OP, there's the bald figures. Please answer, do you consider less than a grand profit from selling a car to be unreasonable?http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Think it through:
Say you settle for £1600.
Assume he needs to spend £300 bringing up to forecourt std = £1900 cost. Puts it on the forecourt for £3200, leaves room to haggle to £2800.
That's £900 profit, less his overheads, any warranty costs he has to buy (or risk he takes), tax, etc.
Probably leaves him £600 net profit?
I'm amazed he offered anywhere near that!
When I was in the trade your car is the sort of car you just don't want on your pitch unless it's very very cheap because it's going to stick.
It's a mumsie hatch that a mum won't want because it's a bit of a boy racer car, no-one sensible is going to want it because it's a Citroen and no boy racer is going to want to be seen dead in it. Basically it's a car with limited appeal.
Personally I'd say it's a more interesting car than the Focus your looking at, but the point being the Focus is an easy car to sell as lots of people want them (you being one).
Citroens/Saabs/Alfas not cars you want to be buying new with your own cash unless you plan on keeping them a long time or using the same dealer to get another car from the same Marque and hopefully get over allowance everytime.
I actually like Citroens/Alfas and Saabs.
When I was in the trade your car is the sort of car you just don't want on your pitch unless it's very very cheap because it's going to stick.
It's a mumsie hatch that a mum won't want because it's a bit of a boy racer car, no-one sensible is going to want it because it's a Citroen and no boy racer is going to want to be seen dead in it. Basically it's a car with limited appeal.
Personally I'd say it's a more interesting car than the Focus your looking at, but the point being the Focus is an easy car to sell as lots of people want them (you being one).
Citroens/Saabs/Alfas not cars you want to be buying new with your own cash unless you plan on keeping them a long time or using the same dealer to get another car from the same Marque and hopefully get over allowance everytime.
I actually like Citroens/Alfas and Saabs.
I bought a px from a dealer recently. Got it for a good price and he was a nice genuine guy. I was talking to him about his cars and profits. He was really honest, said he bought high mileage car from a company selling ex lease cars. They did any work required, valeted them, and sold them over the net. He said they make £250 per and sold 20 cars per week.
An example of the cars he had in was an 18 month old shogun, looked mint but with 120k on the clock. He was selling it at £4k lower then the cheapest one on autotrader. He was listing it on eBay that night (I left at 9pm) and said it would be sold by the morning. I checked eBay when I got home and it was on there, by lunchtime he next day- sold.
An example of the cars he had in was an 18 month old shogun, looked mint but with 120k on the clock. He was selling it at £4k lower then the cheapest one on autotrader. He was listing it on eBay that night (I left at 9pm) and said it would be sold by the morning. I checked eBay when I got home and it was on there, by lunchtime he next day- sold.
Andyjc86 said:
I bought a px from a dealer recently. Got it for a good price and he was a nice genuine guy. I was talking to him about his cars and profits. He was really honest, said he bought high mileage car from a company selling ex lease cars. They did any work required, valeted them, and sold them over the net. He said they make £250 per and sold 20 cars per week.
An example of the cars he had in was an 18 month old shogun, looked mint but with 120k on the clock. He was selling it at £4k lower then the cheapest one on autotrader. He was listing it on eBay that night (I left at 9pm) and said it would be sold by the morning. I checked eBay when I got home and it was on there, by lunchtime he next day- sold.
Sounds good but when you are grossing just £250 per car, and said car comes back with a fault + unhappy customer, you end up netting a big fat zero.An example of the cars he had in was an 18 month old shogun, looked mint but with 120k on the clock. He was selling it at £4k lower then the cheapest one on autotrader. He was listing it on eBay that night (I left at 9pm) and said it would be sold by the morning. I checked eBay when I got home and it was on there, by lunchtime he next day- sold.
Having said that, it is a numbers game these days, volume is the way forward, but a business can only exist on making profit on every vehicle.
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