RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman
Discussion
Mermaid said:
PAULBECKHAM11 said:
.. Its a very clever, back to old school, RWD car - no one cried about a E30 M3 having under 200bhp, yes things have moved on - but an M3 is still a great car and everyone still loves them!!!! k.
I suspect Toyota were trying to recreate the E30 M3 feel -RWD, 200ps, nice steering, about1200kgs, special engine flat 4 instead of the 16V IL 4.BUT the E30 M3 was also a high quality car.
foxhounduk said:
Brilliant Harris video as always, but I'm sorry, it's the white elephant in the room; 7.7s to 60. No matter how much one goes on about the balance and refinement, it is slow, painfully slow for a car that looks fast. And for me, having a slow fast-looking car, is an automotive no-no.
Personally, I think it can be more fun to drive a slightly slower car harder than to drive a faster car slower.On UK roads, the 86 looks like a car you drive at 7/10ths to 10/10ths more often than you would a car that was a bit faster. I think that's the point. And it's why this car is so attractive.
Chris Harris said:
I researched all forum responses to the original GT86 video, all Twitter activity and personal emails I've received. People wanted to see 370Z and used Cayman S, plain and simple.
If you think a coupe-punter with £28k to spend wouldn't look at a used Cayman, I suspect you might be in the minority.
In fact PHers can help here.
Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?
If people agree with you, I'll defer. Until that point I'm inclined to say you're talking tommy-rot.
Go and read the promotional material Toyota have been putting out for the past 3 years. This is a affordable sports car, and you have to factor in running costs into that equation. If you think a coupe-punter with £28k to spend wouldn't look at a used Cayman, I suspect you might be in the minority.
In fact PHers can help here.
Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?
If people agree with you, I'll defer. Until that point I'm inclined to say you're talking tommy-rot.
They probably could of saved another 50kgs and made it even smaller if they sacrificed rear seats but they didn't. They probably could of squeezed another 20bhp out of the boxer, but they didn't to keep emissions and mpg in check.
As I said you are an excellent video journalist,I've watched everything you've done from Autocar, drivers republic, evo to drive..probably shared your videos a thousand times but this issue comes up a million times in every Pistonheads post and its always up for debate...I think you've got this wrong.
Chris Harris said:
[...]
Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?
Slightly lower budget (max € 25k) and not interested in the Z cars, but the GT86 and the plain Cayman as well as Elise and Europa (last two as used import from UK) are on my current short list. Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?
GT86 is actually the first car in a long, long time that I would even consider buying new with my own money.
Deep inside I know it would probably be just as satisfying (with my limited skills at the wheel) to just get an MX5 NA or 325 E30 and bring that up to better than new standard -- which should be doable for around € 7k.
So just a long winded way of saying that I feel that the comparison is totally valid and that the video, as always, was just a joy to watch.
Thanks PH & CH!
Dagnut said:
Go and read the promotional material Toyota have been putting out for the past 3 years. This is a affordable sports car, and you have to factor in running costs into that equation.
They probably could of saved another 50kgs and made it even smaller if they sacrificed rear seats but they didn't. They probably could of squeezed another 20bhp out of the boxer, but they didn't to keep emissions and mpg in check.
As I said you are an excellent video journalist,I've watched everything you've done from Autocar, drivers republic, evo to drive..probably shared your videos a thousand times but this issue comes up a million times in every Pistonheads post and its always up for debate...I think you've got this wrong.
You mean the running costs that were repeatedly mentioned in the video? And the conclusion that referenced, several times, the fact that one was a new car, and one wasn't?They probably could of saved another 50kgs and made it even smaller if they sacrificed rear seats but they didn't. They probably could of squeezed another 20bhp out of the boxer, but they didn't to keep emissions and mpg in check.
As I said you are an excellent video journalist,I've watched everything you've done from Autocar, drivers republic, evo to drive..probably shared your videos a thousand times but this issue comes up a million times in every Pistonheads post and its always up for debate...I think you've got this wrong.
You have watched the video, haven't you?
No idea what you mean about reading promotional materials. I tend to find driving the cars and communicating with the people who buy them paints a more accurate picture. Old fashioned, but it tends to work.
This is the most valid comparison test I've done all year.
Chris Harris said:
You mean the running costs that were repeatedly mentioned in the video? And the conclusion that referenced, several times, the fact that one was a new car, and one wasn't?
You have watched the video, haven't you?
No idea what you mean about reading promotional materials. I tend to find driving the cars and communicating with the people who buy them paints a more accurate picture. Old fashioned, but it tends to work.
This is the most valid comparison test I've done all year.
Just as a matter of interest who did the cars belong too?You have watched the video, haven't you?
No idea what you mean about reading promotional materials. I tend to find driving the cars and communicating with the people who buy them paints a more accurate picture. Old fashioned, but it tends to work.
This is the most valid comparison test I've done all year.
Have to say as much as I like Harris I think he's missed the point of the 370; it's really a Japanese muscle car, not a sports car as tradition would have. I've got one and it's just a quality bit of kit to own and drive (running costs aside, shares in BP on order...), especially if the GT pack and satnav options have been ticked. I also reckon it looks the dogs in the flesh, tho it doesn't seem to photograph that well, especially in red. But I would say that, wouldn't I...
Great video and totally relevant. The Cayman S used offers so much smiles per miles it's almost criminal. Tough choice, this 05 3.4 S or the GT86 new with 5 year warranty. Knowing what Cayman's can do though I'd take the Porker and use a good independent to look after it. saving the £1k a year for warranty towards any mechanical work.
That's Jackwood's old car that he sold before he got the GT3.
That's Jackwood's old car that he sold before he got the GT3.
What's a second hand GT86 going to be worth?
I'd be comparing that in a year to other cars for similar money and i think you'll find the Toyota will find it's ground.
It's a 2+2 Mx5 coupe.
As a new purchase, does nothing for me. As a second hand buy, it'll be a much, much more attractive thing.
I'd be comparing that in a year to other cars for similar money and i think you'll find the Toyota will find it's ground.
It's a 2+2 Mx5 coupe.
As a new purchase, does nothing for me. As a second hand buy, it'll be a much, much more attractive thing.
Dagnut said:
Go and read the promotional material Toyota have been putting out for the past 3 years. This is a affordable sports car, and you have to factor in running costs into that equation.
They probably could of saved another 50kgs and made it even smaller if they sacrificed rear seats but they didn't. They probably could of squeezed another 20bhp out of the boxer, but they didn't to keep emissions and mpg in check.
As I said you are an excellent video journalist,I've watched everything you've done from Autocar, drivers republic, evo to drive..probably shared your videos a thousand times but this issue comes up a million times in every Pistonheads post and its always up for debate...I think you've got this wrong.
... And 50% plus of ph think you have it wrong, and so like the video.They probably could of saved another 50kgs and made it even smaller if they sacrificed rear seats but they didn't. They probably could of squeezed another 20bhp out of the boxer, but they didn't to keep emissions and mpg in check.
As I said you are an excellent video journalist,I've watched everything you've done from Autocar, drivers republic, evo to drive..probably shared your videos a thousand times but this issue comes up a million times in every Pistonheads post and its always up for debate...I think you've got this wrong.
Running costs:
Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).
Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.
For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).
So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
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