IAM - Image Problem ?
Discussion
J4CKO said:
Not me, always up for improvement, I like driving...
Well in that case you should definitely sign up - just be prepared to sort the wheat from the chaff of what you're told.If you don't get something useful from the course in terms of observation, planning, smoothness, safety or progress than I'd be very surprised. If you do get unlucky with a difficult observer, just ask for a different one - most groups will have at least one real enthusiast.
J4CKO said:
I am better than a lot of the cretins I see...
Step one - you can't change the other thirty million licence holders, so don't get involved. Anticipate and plan for their mistakes, but concentrate on your own driving.I went through a IAM course a couple of years back thanks to my employer. On the one hand I found some of the stuff on observation very important and it changed my attitude to distances and anticipation. Worth it for that alone.
On the other hand, the wheel shuffling, block changing up-down, don't touch the clutch even if the engine is stuttering during braking and so on a massive pile of rubbish.
And the instructor claimed he "didn't hang about" but went on doing 50mph on a dual carriageway.
My view is that they have a lot of valuable lessons to teach but need to wake up to modern technology and ditch the "Monty Burns in a Studebaker" image.
On the other hand, the wheel shuffling, block changing up-down, don't touch the clutch even if the engine is stuttering during braking and so on a massive pile of rubbish.
And the instructor claimed he "didn't hang about" but went on doing 50mph on a dual carriageway.
My view is that they have a lot of valuable lessons to teach but need to wake up to modern technology and ditch the "Monty Burns in a Studebaker" image.
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
J4CKO said:
Not me, always up for improvement, I like driving...
Well in that case you should definitely sign up - just be prepared to sort the wheat from the chaff of what you're told.If you don't get something useful from the course in terms of observation, planning, smoothness, safety or progress than I'd be very surprised. If you do get unlucky with a difficult observer, just ask for a different one - most groups will have at least one real enthusiast.
J4CKO said:
I am better than a lot of the cretins I see...
Step one - you can't change the other thirty million licence holders, so don't get involved. Anticipate and plan for their mistakes, but concentrate on your own driving.stuckmojo said:
On the other hand, the wheel shuffling, block changing up-down, don't touch the clutch even if the engine is stuttering during braking and so on a massive pile of rubbish.
There's a difference between what people perceive as 'shuffling' to proper 'pull/push' steering. Shuffling, as we see learners doing is awful but I personally find that during normal driving then pull/push steering (grabbing big handfuls of steering lock) makes driving much smoother and certainly more control. When pushing on, I adapt more of a 'fixed input' approach. Horses for courses, I adapt my steering technique to the situation.I was taught to slowly depress the clutch as it got to the point of 'stuttering'. Sort of slipping the clutch in reverse if you like, made things much better.
However I do like to, admittedly uncessarily, downshift as I simply like the sound of the exhaust on the Elise
stuckmojo said:
And the instructor claimed he "didn't hang about" but went on doing 50mph on a dual carriageway.
Well he simply wasn't 'making progress' 
Every single person I've been out with promoted getting to the speed limit as quick as possible (within reason!) and one quite senior member encouraged me to speed up from the NSL to catch and overtake another car... that doesn't quite fit the stuffy profile stated above
stuckmojo said:
I went through a IAM course a couple of years back thanks to my employer. On the one hand I found some of the stuff on observation very important and it changed my attitude to distances and anticipation. Worth it for that alone.
On the other hand, the wheel shuffling, block changing up-down, don't touch the clutch even if the engine is stuttering during braking and so on a massive pile of rubbish.
And the instructor claimed he "didn't hang about" but went on doing 50mph on a dual carriageway.
My view is that they have a lot of valuable lessons to teach but need to wake up to modern technology and ditch the "Monty Burns in a Studebaker" image.
On the other hand, the wheel shuffling, block changing up-down, don't touch the clutch even if the engine is stuttering during braking and so on a massive pile of rubbish.
And the instructor claimed he "didn't hang about" but went on doing 50mph on a dual carriageway.
My view is that they have a lot of valuable lessons to teach but need to wake up to modern technology and ditch the "Monty Burns in a Studebaker" image.
I think they have something valuable to teach everyone; you just need to learn to filter out the rubbish.kambites said:
I think they have something valuable to teach everyone; you just need to learn to filter out the rubbish.MagicalTrevor said:
a11y_m said:
MagicalTrevor said:
There are quite a few IAM (and other AD organisation members) on PH and we're definitely not like the OP's image of the IAM.
On the whole, I'd agree. IAM have a big issue (IMO) with their image however every single IAM member that I've been out driving with have been completely different to that image. They need to adjust their attitude or else they're going to struggle to attract new members
I feel that my experience with IAM has been positive but I do feel that I've been lucky
+1 to all of that. Well, most of it.On the whole, I'd agree. IAM have a big issue (IMO) with their image however every single IAM member that I've been out driving with have been completely different to that image. They need to adjust their attitude or else they're going to struggle to attract new members
I feel that my experience with IAM has been positive but I do feel that I've been lucky
I'm probably not the typical perceived IAM member: did my IAM just turned 30 and in a Z4 roadster (don't quite know what THAT says about me though...). My observer was decent enough as was the examiner, an acting police trainer who told some great stories about interesting moments in RWD motorway patrol cars.
The biggest turn-off for me was the local group meetings/lectures. Attended a few while undergoing observing but they were so poor and old-fashioned that I've not been back since. Perhaps I was unlucky but they were certainly more in fitting with the general perceived image of the IAM than what I experienced on my actual drives.
Overall though it was well worth doing and I'd suggest it to anyone thinking about it.
My old man went on their course, and his sentiment was that some of it was very useful, but other sides were sanctimonious balls.
The general image I have of them is that they seem to think that driving is some arcane skill and those who are not IAM simply have not grasped the enormity of what we are undertaking.
The general image I have of them is that they seem to think that driving is some arcane skill and those who are not IAM simply have not grasped the enormity of what we are undertaking.
nottyash said:
Image problem? Yep, a load of bell ends in an exclusive gentlemens club for bell ends
You're starting to repeat yourself, is that to perpetuate the insult?I don't have an issue with you maybe thinking that some or the majority are "bell ends" but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Well what an 'interesting' thread...some valid criticism absolutely but also a load of out-dated stereotypical tosh as well.
I'm heavily involved in a local IAM group.
The IAM HQ is very aware of the image problem and has been actively addressing it...modernising publicity, new website (a couple of years ago see www.iam.org.uk), appointing F1 god Nigel Mansell and more recently Vicki Butler-Henderson on board, advertising in Top Gear mag, Silverstone bill boards, Sunday Times, Bike magazine etc etc.
BUT...it takes ages to filter through the membership and the public (as we can see).
As 'magical...' pointed out we don't do 'shuffle steering' - no one would advocate that but as for block gear changes yes we do and what exactly is the problem with that!
Are their some members or even whole IAM groups who aresomewhat dinosaur-like? Yes absolutely. Are their some members or groups that have a much more modern, fresh approach? Oh yes. Would you expect any
different from 100,000 members all of whome are volunteers?
I'm heavily involved in a local IAM group.
The IAM HQ is very aware of the image problem and has been actively addressing it...modernising publicity, new website (a couple of years ago see www.iam.org.uk), appointing F1 god Nigel Mansell and more recently Vicki Butler-Henderson on board, advertising in Top Gear mag, Silverstone bill boards, Sunday Times, Bike magazine etc etc.
BUT...it takes ages to filter through the membership and the public (as we can see).
As 'magical...' pointed out we don't do 'shuffle steering' - no one would advocate that but as for block gear changes yes we do and what exactly is the problem with that!
Are their some members or even whole IAM groups who aresomewhat dinosaur-like? Yes absolutely. Are their some members or groups that have a much more modern, fresh approach? Oh yes. Would you expect any
different from 100,000 members all of whome are volunteers?
martine said:
appointing F1 god Nigel Mansell and more recently Vicki Butler-Henderson on board
I'm glad the IAM are aware they have an image problem as any organisation that aims to improve driving standards is good in my books, but IMO involving Nigel Mansell and VBH isn't doing any favours. Nigel's obviously a great racing driver but surely is only going to attract the older driver (not necessarily a bad thing I guess judging by driving standards among some elderly drivers). And VBH 
, but again I can't see that attracting the younger serious driver. Not quite sure who the inspiring drivers could be, but surely along the lines of current British F1/rally/BTCC drivers if they want to take that route? (just as long as they resist from burnouts/oversteer in Mercs...)
Like many other clubs, societies, organisations and similar, the organisation, imo, got up its own ringpiece years back (maybe even when it was formed) and hasn't (yet) removed its head from said orifice.
I know members of IAM and RoSPA who are great people, fun to be with etc. etc. and others that I wouldn't give a lift to on a cold day. Almost without exception, the people that I get on with who are / have been members berate the organisation itself. Most, like me, value the training available and are flexible enough to take it pretty much as it comes and learn something.
I continue to advocate that anyone with a driving licence that hasn't considered taking some form of advanced driving tuition should, but I always remind them that there is no need to become a life member of the organisation that they choose to dish out that tuition.
Some local IAM (and RoSPA) groups are great, others less so. If you don't like what you find at the first one you try, there are plenty more not far away.
I know members of IAM and RoSPA who are great people, fun to be with etc. etc. and others that I wouldn't give a lift to on a cold day. Almost without exception, the people that I get on with who are / have been members berate the organisation itself. Most, like me, value the training available and are flexible enough to take it pretty much as it comes and learn something.
I continue to advocate that anyone with a driving licence that hasn't considered taking some form of advanced driving tuition should, but I always remind them that there is no need to become a life member of the organisation that they choose to dish out that tuition.
Some local IAM (and RoSPA) groups are great, others less so. If you don't like what you find at the first one you try, there are plenty more not far away.
MagicalTrevor said:
You're starting to repeat yourself, is that to perpetuate the insult?
I don't have an issue with you maybe thinking that some or the majority are "bell ends" but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Sorry. wasnt intentional to post that twice. I deleted the second one.I don't have an issue with you maybe thinking that some or the majority are "bell ends" but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I know not everyone in IAM is a bell end, but they have the fair share of them.
Whether you want to join the IAM and have their test or not, "Roadcraft" is really worth reading.
Then, having read it, ask yourself, can I apply the principles described?
Forget technique, it's about mental attitude and always thinking about your driving, such that there should be, rarely, if ever, any surprises presented to you.
The IAM is, now, just an organisation having to justify its existence and keep the funds coming in to pay staff, in a climate of increasing PC stuff about cars.
BRAKE?, how can the IAM counter the emotional output from them?
Then, having read it, ask yourself, can I apply the principles described?
Forget technique, it's about mental attitude and always thinking about your driving, such that there should be, rarely, if ever, any surprises presented to you.
The IAM is, now, just an organisation having to justify its existence and keep the funds coming in to pay staff, in a climate of increasing PC stuff about cars.
BRAKE?, how can the IAM counter the emotional output from them?
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