IAM - Image Problem ?
Discussion
Sorry the the thread high-jack, but what are peoples opinions of HPC: http://www.hpc.org.uk/
Charlie Michael said:
Sorry the the thread high-jack, but what are peoples opinions of HPC: http://www.hpc.org.uk/
Steve vRS said:
I'm a member.
It also grates that they do not attack Brake. The IAM is supposed to be a road safety charity so they should crush this vile organisation. The way Brake get in the media to respond to motoring issues instead of the IAM (even with it's faults) boils my piss.
Steve
Absolutely spot on, couldn't have said it better myself. It also grates that they do not attack Brake. The IAM is supposed to be a road safety charity so they should crush this vile organisation. The way Brake get in the media to respond to motoring issues instead of the IAM (even with it's faults) boils my piss.
Steve
Those IAM who I do know did the course to improve their driving rather than feel special about themselves - perhaps the difference is in the people before they sign up.
Steve vRS said:
WhoseGeneration said:
BRAKE?, how can the IAM counter the emotional output from them?
Facts. Accepting that there are risks to driving but those risks are far outweighed by the benefits offered, especially when drivers are trained and competent.Steve
BRAKE only have to say "If the NSL were 40 mph, with 50 mph on Motorways, fewer children would be killed", for politicians to consider it.
I do agree that roads populated with all of an IAM standard and exibiting it would be safer and more pleasant to travel.
It's a pipedream, most will not consider driving as a task to be totally concentrated upon whilst undertaking it.
I'm an IAM member and we're not all like that at all! I have to admit I'm not the model member, primarily by ignoring certain key features of advanced driving. 
My Observer was a great guy; not at all like the stereotypical IAM member, a great teacher and even owned an Impreza RB5! My advice: do the training, pass the test and take what you want from it.
My Observer was a great guy; not at all like the stereotypical IAM member, a great teacher and even owned an Impreza RB5! My advice: do the training, pass the test and take what you want from it.
WhoseGeneration said:
Nope, in our current state of society and politics, emotion always wins over facts.
BRAKE only have to say "If the NSL were 40 mph, with 50 mph on Motorways, fewer children would be killed", for politicians to consider it.
I do agree that roads populated with all of an IAM standard and exibiting it would be safer and more pleasant to travel.
It's a pipedream, most will not consider driving as a task to be totally concentrated upon whilst undertaking it.
If people knew that there were factories in this country that if things went wrong CHILDREN could be killed. Killed...to DEATH. There would be an outcry.BRAKE only have to say "If the NSL were 40 mph, with 50 mph on Motorways, fewer children would be killed", for politicians to consider it.
I do agree that roads populated with all of an IAM standard and exibiting it would be safer and more pleasant to travel.
It's a pipedream, most will not consider driving as a task to be totally concentrated upon whilst undertaking it.
Don't know what point I'm trying to make but hey, people should accept that if they want to live then risk cannot be eliminated merely reduced to an acceptable level. 2800 fatalities is societaly an acceptable level of risk otherwise no one would drive anywhere.
Brake need to get their head out their arse and accept this.
However, this rational thought all gets blown out of the water when someone says, "Think of the children.".
Steve
David87 said:
My Observer was a great guy; not at all like the stereotypical IAM member, a great teacher and even owned an Impreza RB5! My advice: do the training, pass the test and take what you want from it.
Yup, when I was an Observer, long time ago now, I had an Astra GTE 16v, on demo drives to Associates, the comment usually was along the lines of, "Wow, I've never experienced acceleration like that".Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
WhoseGeneration said:
Yup, when I was an Observer, long time ago now, I had an Astra GTE 16v, on demo drives to Associates, the comment usually was along the lines of, "Wow, I've never experienced acceleration like that".
Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
So you drive a fast car slow, but safe. Nice one Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
nottyash said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Yup, when I was an Observer, long time ago now, I had an Astra GTE 16v, on demo drives to Associates, the comment usually was along the lines of, "Wow, I've never experienced acceleration like that".
Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
So you drive a fast car slow, but safe. Nice one Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
nottyash said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Yup, when I was an Observer, long time ago now, I had an Astra GTE 16v, on demo drives to Associates, the comment usually was along the lines of, "Wow, I've never experienced acceleration like that".
Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
So you drive a fast car slow, but safe. Nice one Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
How can you not understand what the bloke's saying?nottyash, I suppose you're quite the driver then? Oh, and which group did you the course with?
Synchromesh said:
nottyash said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Yup, when I was an Observer, long time ago now, I had an Astra GTE 16v, on demo drives to Associates, the comment usually was along the lines of, "Wow, I've never experienced acceleration like that".
Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
So you drive a fast car slow, but safe. Nice one Demonstrating making progress when safe to do so. Something not in BRAKE's mindset.
Minddriving, that's the point, that's why, driving in the IAM, or AD way, others, sometimes, perceive you as slow. Because of their lack of awareness.
How can you not understand what the bloke's saying?nottyash, I suppose you're quite the driver then? Oh, and which group did you the course with?
"Which group did you the course with" ?? I dont even know what you mean. What course? What group? I am not a member of IAM, because I cant drive fast, safely and pay attention on the road ahead.
WhoseGeneration said:
Steve vRS said:
WhoseGeneration said:
BRAKE?, how can the IAM counter the emotional output from them?
Facts. Accepting that there are risks to driving but those risks are far outweighed by the benefits offered, especially when drivers are trained and competent.Steve
BRAKE only have to say "If the NSL were 40 mph, with 50 mph on Motorways, fewer children would be killed", for politicians to consider it.
I do agree that roads populated with all of an IAM standard and exibiting it would be safer and more pleasant to travel.
It's a pipedream, most will not consider driving as a task to be totally concentrated upon whilst undertaking it.
There are a number of other important issues. Tyre Safety. Sat Nav distraction. Car maintenance. Appropriate speed. Lane discipline. Looking ahead. Skid Control. Brake never campaigns on these issues, but someone should.
Every word is IAM is a turn-off for campaigning. Institute is old fashioned and elitist. Advanced is rather arrogant. Motorist is dated. Something like DriveAdvance could be more engaging.
Their work is valuable, honest and well researched. They play an important role, but could be much more engaging. And they really need to use Brake as their lever to put forward a counter-argument that defends responsible driving and promotes continuous driver development
I am a member of the IAM and support their ultimate goal - to improve road safety by focusing on the main cause of accidents - driver error.
It is a matter of regret, however, that they are nowhere near as effective a force as they could, should and need to be. As others have said, I am aware that they are trying to change and I applaud that.
The issues as I see them are:
1) They are politically weak. They should stand up to the nonsense spouted by BRAKE and lobby much harder for a tougher driving test and more importantly post test further training. They should work much harder with the insurance industry to create financial incentives for those with additional training and better driving records.
2) They have no idea how to appeal to the majority younger drivers. Just take a look at this page from their website touting their new programme for younger drivers - Momentum. Then click on the pdf and tell me what you think of the picture (of a car rolled onto its roof). It's tarring all young people with the same brush and comes across as patronising.
http://www.iam.org.uk/motorist/momentum-young-driv...
http://www.iam.org.uk/images/stories/downloads/Pol...
3) If someone does join a local group to improve their driving, their experience is very group dependent. Some groups are excellent - welcoming, modern in their approach (i.e. not stuck in mud on things like pull push), and see the bigger picture. Others are all too close to the caricatures talked about earlier in this thread. So IAM "corporate" need to weed out Chairpeople and observers who are stuck in the dark ages*.
There is no reason at all, in my view, for an advanced driving organisation not to be able to square the circle of driving safely, having fun whilst doing so and being inclusive (of a wide range of views) rather than exclusive.
The IAM remains a missed opportunity. I do, however, wholeheartedly support the efforts of some at senior levels in the IAM right now to change that.
Cheers
It is a matter of regret, however, that they are nowhere near as effective a force as they could, should and need to be. As others have said, I am aware that they are trying to change and I applaud that.
The issues as I see them are:
1) They are politically weak. They should stand up to the nonsense spouted by BRAKE and lobby much harder for a tougher driving test and more importantly post test further training. They should work much harder with the insurance industry to create financial incentives for those with additional training and better driving records.
2) They have no idea how to appeal to the majority younger drivers. Just take a look at this page from their website touting their new programme for younger drivers - Momentum. Then click on the pdf and tell me what you think of the picture (of a car rolled onto its roof). It's tarring all young people with the same brush and comes across as patronising.
http://www.iam.org.uk/motorist/momentum-young-driv...
http://www.iam.org.uk/images/stories/downloads/Pol...
3) If someone does join a local group to improve their driving, their experience is very group dependent. Some groups are excellent - welcoming, modern in their approach (i.e. not stuck in mud on things like pull push), and see the bigger picture. Others are all too close to the caricatures talked about earlier in this thread. So IAM "corporate" need to weed out Chairpeople and observers who are stuck in the dark ages*.
There is no reason at all, in my view, for an advanced driving organisation not to be able to square the circle of driving safely, having fun whilst doing so and being inclusive (of a wide range of views) rather than exclusive.
The IAM remains a missed opportunity. I do, however, wholeheartedly support the efforts of some at senior levels in the IAM right now to change that.
Cheers
- A small anecdote to bring this to life. A while back I wrote an article on an advanced driving forum about the usefulness of heel & toe on the road (brake / gear overlap or BGOL in advanced driving terms). I pointed out, for example, that when driving down steep hills, the ability to stay on the brakes into the corner, whilst changing down a gear smoothly with heel & toe to rev match is clearly advantageous to safety. There are many other scenarios. Another member of the forum asked if they could adapt the article for their local (in this case RoSPA, but the point remains the same) group's magazine. He did so. The editor of the magazine clearly did not approve of heel & toe ("racing on the road" and all that nonsense). So he invited other members of the group to write rebuttals, one from a Class 1 police driver. They were almost vitriolic in their attempts to argue against heel & toe. The Class 1 driver piously pointed out that he had driven at very high speeds all his career without needing H&T. Good for him, but what relevance that had to the argument I don't know. There's nothing wrong with a good debate, but my friend was made to feel like an outcast for having the tenacity to suggest that a flexible approach to Roadcraft might be a good thing. It is this closed mindedness that the IAM and RoSPA need to root out and kill.
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