RE: You Know You Want To: Brock's Holden Commodore
Discussion
Reardy Mister said:
GC8 said:
My uncle imported and raced one of Peter Brocks Holdens, quite successfully. He didnt pay ANYTHING like £250,000 for it though!
Which one? I'd be interested know some more on that. Krikkit said:
What an epic piece of machinery. How practical would it be as a track car? Presumably if you had the engine rebuilt in a less lairy tune it would be fairly reliable?
Not practical at all. They are very hard to drive. You need to be trained in them. A track weekend would cost $10k AUD (car expenses). The engine would require a freshen up after every 6 or so track weekends. You would need to be an experienced racing driver to keep it on the track. Weekend warriors would wall this very quickly without specialist training. Think owning a 1990's F1 car and you are on track as to how hard these things are to handle. In Australia you can race this in historic touring car categories, gain sponsorship and pull large crowds so it would be worth it for the 6 race weekends a year. But that would cost you the best part of $60k AUD in running costs.Still, I've driven this model commodore with 520hp in improved production. What an absolute thrill. Like nothing on earth. You know that feeling you got when you were a kid and dreamed you could fly? That feeling in the dream when you flew? That's the thrill, accompanied by a V8 roar, too many 'G's' and a smile that would give you a flip top head.
405dogvan said:
Veeayt said:
Was that a Peter Jackson LotR King Kong Sierra racecar overtaking?
Peter Jackson are a brand of cigarettes - or at least they were!?Peter Jackson the film guy is from NEW ZEALAND wheras that is AUSTRALIA
Don't worry too much, it's just like them mixing up Austria and Africa...
These 90's Commodores are great cars even in their more basic rep mobile forms. They are. Not that heavy, handle qute well (predictable easy to catch over steer) and mechanically simple. In Australia the parts are amazingly cheap. The really fast ones are stonkingly fast. But even the basic 3.8 litre V6 is enough to get you in to plenty of trouble.
jnoiles said:
Much about the one for sale doesn't ring true to me. The engine doesn't look like the twin throttle body homologated one. The dash looks very non VN/VP. The front lights and body kit look more VP than VN, although I'll concede that the cars were uprated while running at the time. It appears to be rolling on 16" HSV road wheels from the VN era (SV3800). The Group A brakes wouldn't fit under them. I smell a rat. Or a significantly modified car from when it ran professionally.
The dash appears to be from a later model VR or VS Commodore.JackCarter said:
jnoiles said:
Much about the one for sale doesn't ring true to me. The engine doesn't look like the twin throttle body homologated one. The dash looks very non VN/VP. The front lights and body kit look more VP than VN, although I'll concede that the cars were uprated while running at the time. It appears to be rolling on 16" HSV road wheels from the VN era (SV3800). The Group A brakes wouldn't fit under them. I smell a rat. Or a significantly modified car from when it ran professionally.
The dash appears to be from a later model VR or VS Commodore.GC8 said:
Reardy Mister said:
GC8 said:
My uncle imported and raced one of Peter Brocks Holdens, quite successfully. He didnt pay ANYTHING like £250,000 for it though!
Which one? I'd be interested know some more on that. 
What year was it? It wasnt the infamous Chickadee Commodore was it?
http://www.northernmusclecars.co.nz/Mandy-Sinclair...
Edited by Reardy Mister on Thursday 30th August 10:09
Shipper said:
Not practical at all. They are very hard to drive. You need to be trained in them. A track weekend would cost $10k AUD (car expenses). The engine would require a freshen up after every 6 or so track weekends. You would need to be an experienced racing driver to keep it on the track. Weekend warriors would wall this very quickly without specialist training. Think owning a 1990's F1 car and you are on track as to how hard these things are to handle. In Australia you can race this in historic touring car categories, gain sponsorship and pull large crowds so it would be worth it for the 6 race weekends a year. But that would cost you the best part of $60k AUD in running costs.
This model was surprisingly easy to drive in this configuration. Much better than the old VK/VL Group A with their narrow rear tyres and much better than the later models with more sophisticated homologation goodies. An average hacker can easily get to within 90% of a pro driver. The last 10% is an enormous jump and is difficult to extract the performance from. This is where the pros earn their money for being able to make the times. A sensible track day driver would need to be aware of this and drive in a more restrained way (likely!? 
)The killer for me and why I sold my car after it had been superseded was cost. As you rightly point out the consumables are monumental. Brakes replaced twice in a weekend. Tyres at least 1-2 sets a weekend. Running conservatively the engine should last a nice long time - figure 10000km before complete rebuild. Gearboxes were $10-15k a pop depending on which one you want to use. I use to run through 2-3 diffs a year and at least 2 propshafts. And then there was the tuning and having to code the ECU... Start adding it up and you need sponsorship.
If you want a track day version of a Commodore then look at the old race versions of the Brock VK/VL Group A models - fairly conservative tune - currently at 15000km on my current engine. Runs on carbs so easy to tune. Pretty reliable and not too difficult to drive other than being careful on the narrow rear tyres. For a V8 the track consumables cost is not too bad. This is why I kept my VK for the odd track day when I get back to Sydney for a visit.
LostCroc said:
Shipper said:
Not practical at all. They are very hard to drive. You need to be trained in them. You would need to be an experienced racing driver to keep it on the track.
This model was surprisingly easy to drive in this configuration. Much better than the old VK/VL Group A with their narrow rear tyres and much better than the later models with more sophisticated homologation goodies. An average hacker can easily get to within 90% of a pro driver. 
Sounds like the running costs would be a non-starter for most anyway
This might be a better bet for casually interested -> http://www.racing-school.co.uk/driving/v8-super-ca...
LostCroc said:
If you want a track day version of a Commodore then look at the old race versions of the Brock VK/VL Group A models - fairly conservative tune - currently at 15000km on my current engine. Runs on carbs so easy to tune. Pretty reliable and not too difficult to drive other than being careful on the narrow rear tyres. For a V8 the track consumables cost is not too bad. This is why I kept my VK for the odd track day when I get back to Sydney for a visit.
Does the (used be sponsored by ROH wheels) Commodore Cup not still run?That was a cracking series.
Yep the Commodore Cup series still runs. Excellent close racing with lots of panel damage. My VK Commodore is not eligible as it is a true Group A car and too highly modified for the Commodore Cup cars which were fairly stock other than some sensible brakes/suspension/minor engine mods.
Reardy Mister said:
GC8 said:
Reardy Mister said:
GC8 said:
My uncle imported and raced one of Peter Brocks Holdens, quite successfully. He didnt pay ANYTHING like £250,000 for it though!
Which one? I'd be interested know some more on that. What year was it? It wasnt the infamous Chickadee Commodore was it?
http://www.northernmusclecars.co.nz/Mandy-Sinclair...
Its a Commodore VK ETC.
The Grice car shown above was a earlier sister car of the Chickadee car, produced out of the same workshop. This was an awesome car as it distinguished itself very well in Europe with some epic drives, including being part of the Kings Cup win at the Spa 24hours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
Mine is essentially the same model and spec of car fitted out in the same way but without the pedigree (or battle scars!) of the Grice car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
Mine is essentially the same model and spec of car fitted out in the same way but without the pedigree (or battle scars!) of the Grice car.
LostCroc said:
The Grice car shown above was a earlier sister car of the Chickadee car, produced out of the same workshop. This was an awesome car as it distinguished itself very well in Europe with some epic drives, including being part of the Kings Cup win at the Spa 24hours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
Mine is essentially the same model and spec of car fitted out in the same way but without the pedigree (or battle scars!) of the Grice car.
Brilliant footage, thanks for posting those. Gricey was a good pedaller (but there was no love for him in our house!).http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
Mine is essentially the same model and spec of car fitted out in the same way but without the pedigree (or battle scars!) of the Grice car.
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