RE: Spotted: Peugeot 309 GTI
Discussion
The advert starts well with the MoT & Tax & HPI details.
Shame about the first paragraph going on about earlier car with neater rear end. Firstly that's subjective, secondly the difference isn't that great is it, and thirdly when it comes to appraising a 25 year old Pug it really isn't that important is it.
Shame about the first paragraph going on about earlier car with neater rear end. Firstly that's subjective, secondly the difference isn't that great is it, and thirdly when it comes to appraising a 25 year old Pug it really isn't that important is it.
Lovely looking cars, I will own a 309gti one day! I've promised it to myself.
My Mum had a J reg 309gld in red when I was about 11, first car I was allowed to drive completely by myself and spun it within 10 seconds, just reversing up the dirt track at my grandparents (revving fully and then I dump the clutch in reverse with the wheels on full lock) ended up completely wedged in with just cm's to spare front and back, how I didnt damage it I dont know.
My Mum had a J reg 309gld in red when I was about 11, first car I was allowed to drive completely by myself and spun it within 10 seconds, just reversing up the dirt track at my grandparents (revving fully and then I dump the clutch in reverse with the wheels on full lock) ended up completely wedged in with just cm's to spare front and back, how I didnt damage it I dont know.
'Bodywork:
Despite being galvanised (unlike many German manufacturers bothered with until the mid 2000s) many examples have significant rust issues which can be explained by poor crash-damage repairs and neglect.'
They're not galvanised are they?
If they were galvanised I'm sure the additional costs would have reached the marketing people and showroom staff. I've never heard any claims that Peugeots were galvanised before.
Porsche started galvanising the 911 in the mid 70s, the ECOTY winning 1982 Audi 100 was galvanised from introduction. The Porsche 924 and 944 were made at Neckarslum, an Audi plant, the 944s get crusty despite being galvanised it would seem.
Which German cars have been galvanised since the mid noughties? Mercs? Beemers?
It can't just me that finds car adverts full of waffle which usually contain wrong information offputting?
Despite being galvanised (unlike many German manufacturers bothered with until the mid 2000s) many examples have significant rust issues which can be explained by poor crash-damage repairs and neglect.'
They're not galvanised are they?
If they were galvanised I'm sure the additional costs would have reached the marketing people and showroom staff. I've never heard any claims that Peugeots were galvanised before.
Porsche started galvanising the 911 in the mid 70s, the ECOTY winning 1982 Audi 100 was galvanised from introduction. The Porsche 924 and 944 were made at Neckarslum, an Audi plant, the 944s get crusty despite being galvanised it would seem.
Which German cars have been galvanised since the mid noughties? Mercs? Beemers?
It can't just me that finds car adverts full of waffle which usually contain wrong information offputting?
I had the 405 GRi, before moving on the the Mi16. Had that car for around 7 years, until it began to fall apart. Great car for what it was, though. I had the engine rebuilt by a concern who raced them, immediately after I took delivery, and so, it had a few tweaks, and, er, improvements.
carinaman said:
'Bodywork:
Despite being galvanised (unlike many German manufacturers bothered with until the mid 2000s) many examples have significant rust issues which can be explained by poor crash-damage repairs and neglect.'
They're not galvanised are they?
If they were galvanised I'm sure the additional costs would have reached the marketing people and showroom staff. I've never heard any claims that Peugeots were galvanised before.
Porsche started galvanising the 911 in the mid 70s, the ECOTY winning 1982 Audi 100 was galvanised from introduction. The Porsche 924 and 944 were made at Neckarslum, an Audi plant, the 944s get crusty despite being galvanised it would seem.
Which German cars have been galvanised since the mid noughties? Mercs? Beemers?
It can't just me that finds car adverts full of waffle which usually contain wrong information offputting?
From memory they were galvanised, though if we were to be pednantic, I think they were dipped up uptil the top of the window line so the roof isn't actually galvanised, though not much of an issue as the roof is usually the last place to start getting tin wormDespite being galvanised (unlike many German manufacturers bothered with until the mid 2000s) many examples have significant rust issues which can be explained by poor crash-damage repairs and neglect.'
They're not galvanised are they?
If they were galvanised I'm sure the additional costs would have reached the marketing people and showroom staff. I've never heard any claims that Peugeots were galvanised before.
Porsche started galvanising the 911 in the mid 70s, the ECOTY winning 1982 Audi 100 was galvanised from introduction. The Porsche 924 and 944 were made at Neckarslum, an Audi plant, the 944s get crusty despite being galvanised it would seem.
Which German cars have been galvanised since the mid noughties? Mercs? Beemers?
It can't just me that finds car adverts full of waffle which usually contain wrong information offputting?
What the advert is getting at is the fact that Mercs were always galvanised, however the standards certainly slipped from 1996-2005 when a lot of Mercs, especially E-classes, corroded badly.
LocoBlade said:
I had an E plate 309 SRi for about 5 years whilst at uni in the mid 90's and sorry to spoil the run of SRi related incidents but I didn't crash it once, although my cousin had the 3 door XSi version and did, fairly spectacularly, again ending up on it's roof.
Its still the best road car I've ever owned in terms of driver involvement and handling balance, even on Pirelli P6000's. The 1.6 205GTi engine is a peach and performed just as well in a straight line as in the 205 (I think there was about 20-30kgs in it). The chassis though was what really made it special, it gave so much feedback and feel that it was almost like it was wired into your brain, I could drive my favourite roads absolutely balls out and almost do a running commentary in my head of what each wheel was about to do half a second later as it went over bumps, cambers and surface changes etc. Nothing bar my old bike engine'd kit car has come close to that on the road and every modern car I've driven that gets rave reviews for handling has just not been in the same ballpark. The second best bit about the SRi/XSi/GRi was the insurance, being in group 7/8 was heaven for a 19 year old wanting GTI performance but without the money to run one, compared to anything else remotely as quick it was peanuts to insure.
^^^^^ nice to hear one SRI survived! You're right about the insurance though as i was 20 when i got mine and i had traded my Volvo 360 GLS for it and the 309 was pretty much the same insurance as the Volvo, but a much quicker car. Just prior to rolling it I had been having fun chasing a mk2 Golf GTI 16v which if i had crashed it then i would have understood. But the corner where i rolled it, i wasn't even driving it hard or very fast, it was a nice summer's day, bone dry road and had good tyres all round. So even to this day, i'm still at a loss as to why it flipped out sideways and did a full roll back onto its wheels and ended up in a ditch. In the short time I owned it, it was a tremendous fun car to drive, although I distinctly remember it hated being driven sedately round town. Also it always had a bit of a lumpy idle which I believe was just a characteristic of the 1.6i engine? As I test drove a 205 GTI with the same 1.6 and it was the same. Its still the best road car I've ever owned in terms of driver involvement and handling balance, even on Pirelli P6000's. The 1.6 205GTi engine is a peach and performed just as well in a straight line as in the 205 (I think there was about 20-30kgs in it). The chassis though was what really made it special, it gave so much feedback and feel that it was almost like it was wired into your brain, I could drive my favourite roads absolutely balls out and almost do a running commentary in my head of what each wheel was about to do half a second later as it went over bumps, cambers and surface changes etc. Nothing bar my old bike engine'd kit car has come close to that on the road and every modern car I've driven that gets rave reviews for handling has just not been in the same ballpark. The second best bit about the SRi/XSi/GRi was the insurance, being in group 7/8 was heaven for a 19 year old wanting GTI performance but without the money to run one, compared to anything else remotely as quick it was peanuts to insure.
Edited by LocoBlade on Thursday 6th September 21:10
After I got the insurance payout for the 309 SRI, I went back to Volvo! lol and got my brother's old 440 GLT 1.7i which was a boat compared to the 309.
My first car was a 309 GRD, I always thought the driving position was pretty good and it handled nicely. But the 1.9 NA diesel only put out about 65bhp and it was slooow! 
I remember driving up that hill after the turn to Goodwood and it could only manage about 25 in 2nd gear 
Been sitting around in the garden for about 5 years having moved on to better cars, my dad wanted to keep it for some reason. Only scrapped it in the last couple of weeks and got £150
So if anyone needs any 309 parts it'll be in Haynes of Challow scrap yard...
I remember driving up that hill after the turn to Goodwood and it could only manage about 25 in 2nd gear Been sitting around in the garden for about 5 years having moved on to better cars, my dad wanted to keep it for some reason. Only scrapped it in the last couple of weeks and got £150
So if anyone needs any 309 parts it'll be in Haynes of Challow scrap yard...CampDavid said:
From memory they were galvanised, though if we were to be pednantic, I think they were dipped up uptil the top of the window line so the roof isn't actually galvanised, though not much of an issue as the roof is usually the last place to start getting tin worm
What the advert is getting at is the fact that Mercs were always galvanised, however the standards certainly slipped from 1996-2005 when a lot of Mercs, especially E-classes, corroded badly.
Thank you.What the advert is getting at is the fact that Mercs were always galvanised, however the standards certainly slipped from 1996-2005 when a lot of Mercs, especially E-classes, corroded badly.
I don't think they were galvanised.
If they were magazine tests at the time would have said so, I am thinking particularly of the Engineering and Design part of CAR Magazine Giant Tests.
If they were galvanised their Marketing and Sales teams would have made much of it because it would be a benefit, galvanising would be an additional cost so you'd want to ensure you got maximum benefit by banging on about it in the sales literature and they'd have made much of it as it would be a differentiator to use when compared to other stuff like Astras, Escorts and Maestros.
That two people have posted that they rot more than 205s may also be an indication that they're not galvanised.
I think that they have had some other kind of dipped rust proofing perhaps.
Regarding Mercedes and galvanisation I came across this:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/general-mercedes-b...
The advert strays from the point and its objective.
The later cars as well as possibly being strangled by Cats had 'improved' less Fisher Price like dashboards.
Rather than going on about subjective better looks and 80s rear spoiler opinion they could have used a fact like '1987 so no performance sapping catalytic converter', a relevant fact that offers a benefit rather an opinion on cheesy 80s ness.
It's an interesting car but I am sure many of us have bought cars with inches of service history for there still to be fairly big, expensive jobs. Look at the maintained to aircraft standards leggy Ferrari 550?
Interesting but the waffle in the advert is somewhat over egging the pie for my liking. The waffle doesn't negate the stated faults for me. You want to give people reasons to buy the car not irrelevant web wisdom and hearsay that put people off.
Edited by carinaman on Friday 7th September 12:46
I had one 20 yrs ago for 3 years as a company car at Mercury (those were fun days!). It was a white series 2, they had a much better dash and the more normal body-coloured spoiler. It was the best steer of any car I've ever had, mainly due to its lightness I guess....
Such fun to drive, comfortable ride as well. Downsides were noisiness (including squeaks and rattles), not the best brakes ...and relative thirst. But the only thing that went wrong was an early battery failure. The giant sliding sunroof was locked in place by vacuum, driven from the inlet manifold I think. Bizarre but worked, made an amazing noise when you pulled the lever.
I then got out of the company car scheme (for a while) and got a Citroen CX 22TRS, that was a good money pit.
Such fun to drive, comfortable ride as well. Downsides were noisiness (including squeaks and rattles), not the best brakes ...and relative thirst. But the only thing that went wrong was an early battery failure. The giant sliding sunroof was locked in place by vacuum, driven from the inlet manifold I think. Bizarre but worked, made an amazing noise when you pulled the lever.
I then got out of the company car scheme (for a while) and got a Citroen CX 22TRS, that was a good money pit.
carinaman said:
I don't think they were galvanised.
Nearly half of the body was galvanised or zinc coated. Quite hard to read, but it's described at the bottom of page 7 with diagrams showing which panels were galvanised and which were zinc coated:http://issuu.com/lamicale309/docs/coming_together_...
They came with a 6 year anti-perforation warranty.
Marc H said:
The giant sliding sunroof was locked in place by vacuum, driven from the inlet manifold I think. Bizarre but worked, made an amazing noise when you pulled the lever.
Ah yes I liked that too - pleasing hissing sound when you pulled the lever. Simple pleasures and all that Aw I miss my 309 now, I want another - maybe a turbo diesel this time though
I had an H reg 309gti a good few years ago. Had some fantastic drives in it around the Mendips, certainly enjoyed driving it more than 2 205 gtis I've had subsequently. Sold it in 'favour' of an automatic Mondeo company car
Glad someone has bought this one as it's stopped the temptation for me.....
Glad someone has bought this one as it's stopped the temptation for me.....
W00DY said:
bob1179 said:
I love Peugeot 309's, I had a 1987 309 GE when I passed my driving test, then a 1992 309 'Style' a few years later. I always wanted a red, three door, 309 GTi. I still do to be honest so I've organised to buy this one.
I can't remember the last time I was this excited to be getting a 'new' car!
Nice 2001 sports car! I can't remember the last time I was this excited to be getting a 'new' car!
Good to see it's going to a good home with fabulous drive mates.
I like to think I have an 'eclectic' fleet...
As I mentioned earlier, I am really looking forward to getting my paws on it!
Yes, I was splitting hairs on whether galvanisation and electro phospating zinc were different. I've sold kit to a plating works but their stuff was specialised and I didn't ask.
Thank you Otolith for the technical document on the 309. I eventually saw the diagram showing the electrophosphated panels. There's also mention of an electro phosphating oven and blowoff on the schematic of the production line on page 3.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_306
'Bodywork
Contrary to popular myth no full production Peugeot model has ever been galvanised, but the 306 benefits from a zinc phorescent paint-primer process, which has significantly improved corrosion resistance.'
I did try to get my head around the differences:
http://www.surfacepretreatment.com/default.asp?id=...
Different ways of achieving similar ends.
At least the stuff about most Germans not galvanising until the mid-00s taught me something about Mercs. but I'm not sure Mercs. of that period do much for me and out of my price range.
Didn't the 309 GTi feature with lit headlamps in a CAR Magazine test against a Golf GTi and Golf GTI 16V? It was an odd article in that had two models from the same range. Perhaps it was a Golf against a 309 GTi and 205 GTi? For me this car is more about performance and handling than 80s ness.
Perhaps the new owner will update us a bit like the XJR SOTW buyer and the £17K Ferrari 456 and leggy blue Ferrari 550.
Thank you Otolith for the technical document on the 309. I eventually saw the diagram showing the electrophosphated panels. There's also mention of an electro phosphating oven and blowoff on the schematic of the production line on page 3.From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_306
'Bodywork
Contrary to popular myth no full production Peugeot model has ever been galvanised, but the 306 benefits from a zinc phorescent paint-primer process, which has significantly improved corrosion resistance.'
I did try to get my head around the differences:
http://www.surfacepretreatment.com/default.asp?id=...
Different ways of achieving similar ends.
At least the stuff about most Germans not galvanising until the mid-00s taught me something about Mercs. but I'm not sure Mercs. of that period do much for me and out of my price range.
Didn't the 309 GTi feature with lit headlamps in a CAR Magazine test against a Golf GTi and Golf GTI 16V? It was an odd article in that had two models from the same range. Perhaps it was a Golf against a 309 GTi and 205 GTi? For me this car is more about performance and handling than 80s ness.
Perhaps the new owner will update us a bit like the XJR SOTW buyer and the £17K Ferrari 456 and leggy blue Ferrari 550.
carinaman said:
Perhaps the new owner will update us a bit like the XJR SOTW buyer and the £17K Ferrari 456 and leggy blue Ferrari 550.
I'm sure I can do that. It won't be for a few weeks though as the car is about 600 miles from me and is being collected and stored by a friend of mine until I can fly down and collect it.I think the drive back will be a good story to start with! I'll have to take a few cassettes with me so have something to listen to on the way up.
The last time a drove a 309 GTi was way back in 1998, it was a three door, 'F' registered car with 75,000 miles on the clock and funnily enough the dealer wanted £1700 for it. I couldn't afford it back then but compared to my own 1.1 GE it was a real experience. It'll be interesting to see how rose tinted my spectacles are!
Great cars and so overlooked! Reading this article just makes me more and more depressed about the current Peugeot range! The only model Id cross the road to look at is the RCZ sports coupe, the rest are just awful! How did Peugeot lose the plot so badly!
Seminal moment for me in Peugeot history was around 1991/92 when you could buy the 205/309 gtis and the 405 Mi16, as well as the then new 106 XSI....they had the best driving mass market range of cars at that particular time in history...this was when Ford had the awful Mk5 Escort and VW were launching the pudding Mk3 Golf...ha, how times change!!
Seminal moment for me in Peugeot history was around 1991/92 when you could buy the 205/309 gtis and the 405 Mi16, as well as the then new 106 XSI....they had the best driving mass market range of cars at that particular time in history...this was when Ford had the awful Mk5 Escort and VW were launching the pudding Mk3 Golf...ha, how times change!!
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