RE: Paris 2012: F-Type, full details

[dean_ratpac]

Front is very 599 and A Fiat at the back - very nice though - would defo want.

[DJRC]

Carl_Docklands said:

DJRC said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Twincam16 said:

DJRC said:

The XK is moving upwards, into much more genuine SL and DB9 volante territory. Jaguar have said thing all along.

People are complaining about the price of the F-type, but bear this in mind - it undercuts the 911 while going just as fast. The E-type did that.

Need to keep in mind that whilst the Jag has the upper hand in straight line speed, we don't know how she corners.

The Carrera S is quicker on the majority of circuits than the SLS AMG coupe even though the 911 is 90BHP/ton down against the Merc.

Unless Jag have pulled off some sort of engineering miracle, the F-type will get spanked unless, its a straight drag race.

? 95% of the time on 99% of the roads ppl will only be using 50% of the car's performance. How exactly is it going to get spanked?

Its a road car. Race tracks and the Ring dont count.

There is a strong connection between well designed cars and lap times, especially on the smaller circuits like hokenheim.

If the bottom jag beats a boxster s around that circuit we know she will also do well on say, the welsh mountain run (Newport via Llandudno).

No, there isnt. There is associated glamour of winning with the race car on the track in a recognised series that helps sell the roadcar. There is no useful, helpful, rational, objective or sensible link however between the requirements of a roadcar during normal operations and what some ham fisted moron who thinks he can drive does on a track day.

Have you done much objective testing? Say using a standard test route and punting different cars along it. I have. I used to use the Kingston roundabout just outside Lewes and take the cut through down to Newhaven. I road tested everything I bought and looked at buying down that road. Elises, Elans, MX5s, MGFs, TVR Griffiths, Sagaris, integrale and even a normal Sierra. Do you know the difference in the times? 10 seconds thats all. The run would take roughly 11mins no matter what you were in at different times of the day and the maximum difference I ever got between the quickest and slowest down that run was 10secs.

On the public road, taking into account road traffic conditions and the general public, the difference in speed between 2 different cars and 2 different drivers almost always comes down to the driver and their perception of the road/traffic conditions. Not the car. Its a marketing falacy. I can take an MX5 and keep up with pretty much anything I want thats being driven suitably sensibly over the vast majority of B roads in this country or I can take the diesel ML and despatch pretty much anything else on the road over most A roads.

Your argument is for marketing, not reality.

[kambites]

I've never really understood why how fast a car can traverse a given piece of road is meant to matter anyway? In my experience there is very little correlation between speed and fun.

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

I've never really understood why how fast a car can traverse a given piece of road is meant to matter anyway? In my experience there is very little correlation between speed and fun.

Although I'd say relative speed has a vital link. Hence an original Mini being more fun than 90% of faster cars.

But like my Rangie will never traverse the globe there is a sense of satisfaction found in believing it could if I wanted to, so with this Jag, most journeys will be to the office, shops or club there is still satisfaction in knowing it can do far superior journeys. And that is hugely important for marketing when you are selling a dream to us lot who are mostly caught in reality.

[em177]

whoami said:

jimmy156 said:

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

Media hype or Jaguar hype?

^ Exactly

[J-P]

kambites said:

J-P said:

You mean a Jag XKR vs std V8 Vantage? Std XK has a N/A V8 engine and is £65k - XKR is supercharged and has a lot more power but yes is £80k. But even accepting XKR vs V8 Vantage - that's the current model range. I understood that it's the new XKR that's going to be pushed upmarket in terms of price - which if it looks nice, sounds good and goes well, will probably remain desirable as it becomes more affordable. New platform / tech will also make it more likely to do well. Aston could well end up looking like a very pretty dinosaur by comparison!

No, I meant the V8 version of the F-type vs the V8 Vantage.

I thought we were talking about the XK moving upmarket?

We don't know what the depreciation curve of the F-type will be like?

[J-P]

whoami said:

jimmy156 said:

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

Media hype or Jaguar hype?

Both - we were told that Jaguar were building a sports car. That imples a car that you'd be happy o drive on the road but would also enjoy on a track day. This doesn't feel like a track day refugee to me, certainly not in the way that you might enjoy a Boxster or Cayman on a racetrack occasionally.

[DJRC]

Apache said:

Good post DA, I concur, this is a very nice design but you only need to look at Koenigsegg and Pagani to see that there is still some room for pushing the boundries

Egg and Pagani havent pushed any boundaries or done anything new. Pagani designed one car, that used every Italian trick in a thick book written by Ferrari and Lambo with one twist...they used a Merc engine, except it wasnt really a twist, because all the Merc engine is is a crate engine and shoving a crate engine in a dramatic Italian supercar was already done initially by Bizza.

Egg just put a big engine in a fk ugly car.

[DJRC]

J-P said:

whoami said:

jimmy156 said:

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

Media hype or Jaguar hype?

Both - we were told that Jaguar were building a sports car. That imples a car that you'd be happy o drive on the road but would also enjoy on a track day. This doesn't feel like a track day refugee to me, certainly not in the way that you might enjoy a Boxster or Cayman on a racetrack occasionally.

No it doesnt. Ive bought several sports car. Never once have I even considered taking them anywhere near a track. A production sports car is for driving on the road, not the track. Anybody who ever mentions track days or tracking a car when they are talking about a production road car from now on I think should be shot. It might just encourage others to use common sense.

[Apache]

DJRC said:

Apache said:

Good post DA, I concur, this is a very nice design but you only need to look at Koenigsegg and Pagani to see that there is still some room for pushing the boundries

Egg and Pagani havent pushed any boundaries or done anything new. Pagani designed one car, that used every Italian trick in a thick book written by Ferrari and Lambo with one twist...they used a Merc engine, except it wasnt really a twist, because all the Merc engine is is a crate engine and shoving a crate engine in a dramatic Italian supercar was already done initially by Bizza.

Egg just put a big engine in a fk ugly car.

maybe not the best examples I suppose, how about McLaren or Spyker then

[V8A*ndy]

So how long do I have to wait for the R version.....

I think Jaguar are going to drip feed this car to us just so they can keep those prices as sky high as they think they can.

I really hope it's great car and I can't wait to drive it.

[kambites]

J-P said:

I thought we were talking about the XK moving upmarket?

We don't know what the depreciation curve of the F-type will be like?

Oh, sorry, I wasn't. I was talking about the F-type.

I think we can have a very good guess at what the F-type's depreciation curve will look like.

[Grovsie26]

DJRC said:

Egg and Pagani havent pushed any boundaries or done anything new. Pagani designed one car, that used every Italian trick in a thick book written by Ferrari and Lambo with one twist...they used a Merc engine, except it wasnt really a twist, because all the Merc engine is is a crate engine and shoving a crate engine in a dramatic Italian supercar was already done initially by Bizza.

Egg just put a big engine in a fk ugly car.

If the Egg is ugly what cars do you think look great then?

[RichB]

Grovsie26 said:

If the Egg is ugly what cars do you think look great then?

While fast, the Koenigsegg and the Zonda are hardle good looking cars are they.

[Pesty]

RichB said:

Grovsie26 said:

If the Egg is ugly what cars do you think look great then?

While fast, the Koenigsegg and the Zonda are hardle good looking cars are they.

These things are obviously subjective and I would disagree with you.

I would ask have you seen one in real life? Because Zondas' are beautiful in the flesh.

[J-P]

DJRC said:

J-P said:

whoami said:

jimmy156 said:

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

Media hype or Jaguar hype?

Both - we were told that Jaguar were building a sports car. That imples a car that you'd be happy o drive on the road but would also enjoy on a track day. This doesn't feel like a track day refugee to me, certainly not in the way that you might enjoy a Boxster or Cayman on a racetrack occasionally.

No it doesnt. Ive bought several sports car. Never once have I even considered taking them anywhere near a track. A production sports car is for driving on the road, not the track. Anybody who ever mentions track days or tracking a car when they are talking about a production road car from now on I think should be shot. It might just encourage others to use common sense.

The fact that you or indeed many owners of sport cars don't track them or even consider tracking them is not the point I'm making. I'm saying that if you did take it on a track day, it shouldn't feel like a fish out of water, it should be enjoyable, more so than a car which clearly isn't a sports car. I'm not suggesting that it should be a race car.

There are many people who can't afford a race car but who do like to use their road car on track, so IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with determining a road car's suitability for track use. A sports car should fulfil this brief IMHO, even if others don't share this view.

FWIW, Shooting people who don't share your opinion seems like the sort of character trait, you'd expect to see from Idi Amin, but hey ho. PH is a strange place!

[J-P]

kambites said:

J-P said:

I thought we were talking about the XK moving upmarket?

We don't know what the depreciation curve of the F-type will be like?

Oh, sorry, I wasn't. I was talking about the F-type.

I think we can have a very good guess at what the F-type's depreciation curve will look like.

Fair enough - FWIW my original post, the one which you quoted me on was in response this comment on the XK moving onto the Jag's price range

F1GTRUeno said:

I think they're shooting themselves in the foot here.

Stick the XK into Astons price range and everyone will buy the Aston, regardless of whether the Jag is better.

This F-Type better be popular, but I have a feeling people will get confused between it and the XK because it's taking over the XK's price slot whilst they're still retaining the XK model.

[kambites]

J-P said:

Fair enough - FWIW my original post, the one which you quoted me on was in response this comment on the XK moving onto the Jag's price range

Yeah I gather that from re-reading it.

I don't think we have the faintest idea what the new XK's depreciation curve will be like though, because we don't have more than a vague idea what the new XK will be like.

[RichB]

Pesty said:

I would ask have you seen one in real life? Because Zondas' are beautiful in the flesh.

Of course, plenty but to my eyes they've all got that generic Lamborarri, pseudo-racer, super-car look, not drop dead gorgeous like the E-type was at launch.

Edited by RichB on Saturday 29th September 21:55

[J-P]

kambites said:

J-P said:

Fair enough - FWIW my original post, the one which you quoted me on was in response this comment on the XK moving onto the Jag's price range

Yeah I gather that from re-reading it.

I don't think we have the faintest idea what the new XK's depreciation curve will be like though, because we don't have more than a vague idea what the new XK will be like.

Very true but I thought you were looking at the current XK range as a proxy especially as 3 yo XKR is close to £35k