The McLaren F1 does nothing for me
Discussion
xRIEx said:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already (I did scan most of the thread), but the F1 is still the fastest NA production car in the world.
And this is why the Veyron cannot be considered as a 'modern f1' as someone put it.LongLiveTazio said:
How is the Veyron compromised?
Weight - it's nearly 2 tonnes.OllieC said:
xRIEx said:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already (I did scan most of the thread), but the F1 is still the fastest NA production car in the world.
And this is why the Veyron cannot be considered as a 'modern f1' as someone put it.LongLiveTazio said:
How is the Veyron compromised?
Weight - it's nearly 2 tonnes.LongLiveTazio said:
I don't find it anywhere near as exciting as an F40 and that is what I want: excitement.
I like engineering.The F40 (as many ferraris) are actually not all that well built - rough edges abound, particularly in places that people who don't know about cars wouldn't look.
I would not say the same of things like the F1 or CGT.
Ever looked at a CGT bare chassis or carbon engine carrier - or the CNC-milled bridge that carries the suspension at the back of the F1?
They are objets d'art.
Each to their own and all that but I'd have an F1 or CGT in a heartbeat.
I'd describe the F40 as being styling art - it's certainly striking, and the CGT/F1 as being engineering art.
I can understand why people would value either of these!
C
Indeed.
But then for me there's the whole koenigsegg vs pagani. Both are amazing but I would have the segg over the pagani in a heartbeat. The pagani is a wonderful piece and worth accolades but to me is a bit lacking in thought like with the veyron.
It is a bit bought in/style over substance at its heart whereas segg have researched and designed their own incredible engine which I would rank as up there with the BMW v12 in the F1 but obviously not normally aspirated.
They have put incredible thought and technical design into their cars compared the pagani. They hold tons and tons of mechanical and design patents.
In a way its why the veyron confuses me. The segg can generate similar levels of power yet they didn't require god knows how many years and how many hundreds of millions to come up with it or a requirement of 12 radiators to cool all the cars ancilliaries.
But then for me there's the whole koenigsegg vs pagani. Both are amazing but I would have the segg over the pagani in a heartbeat. The pagani is a wonderful piece and worth accolades but to me is a bit lacking in thought like with the veyron.
It is a bit bought in/style over substance at its heart whereas segg have researched and designed their own incredible engine which I would rank as up there with the BMW v12 in the F1 but obviously not normally aspirated.
They have put incredible thought and technical design into their cars compared the pagani. They hold tons and tons of mechanical and design patents.
In a way its why the veyron confuses me. The segg can generate similar levels of power yet they didn't require god knows how many years and how many hundreds of millions to come up with it or a requirement of 12 radiators to cool all the cars ancilliaries.
CraigyMc said:
I like engineering.
The F40 (as many ferraris) are actually not all that well built - rough edges abound, particularly in places that people who don't know about cars wouldn't look.
I would not say the same of things like the F1 or CGT.
Ever looked at a CGT bare chassis or carbon engine carrier - or the CNC-milled bridge that carries the suspension at the back of the F1?
They are objets d'art.
Each to their own and all that but I'd have an F1 or CGT in a heartbeat.
I'd describe the F40 as being styling art - it's certainly striking, and the CGT/F1 as being engineering art.
I can understand why people would value either of these!
C
Yes the F40 has rough edges but consider how incredibly strong the drivetrain is or how fast and competitive it was racing against cars much younger at a time of rapid development in that sector. That too is engineering and there was and always will be an inherent rightness in the car despite the fact it took circa 18 months for the whole project! Which is why for a lot of people the 'flawed' Ferrari is their favourite and that includes people like Andrew Frankel who have driven more special cars than is believable. Not to say that one man's opinion is correct (it is an opinion after all), just that there is a uniqueness that makes it more special than how it was spannered together. If ever there was a case of 'more than the sum of its parts' that would be it for me. The F40 (as many ferraris) are actually not all that well built - rough edges abound, particularly in places that people who don't know about cars wouldn't look.
I would not say the same of things like the F1 or CGT.
Ever looked at a CGT bare chassis or carbon engine carrier - or the CNC-milled bridge that carries the suspension at the back of the F1?
They are objets d'art.
Each to their own and all that but I'd have an F1 or CGT in a heartbeat.
I'd describe the F40 as being styling art - it's certainly striking, and the CGT/F1 as being engineering art.
I can understand why people would value either of these!
C
Cheers!
Tallbut: I am happy to be corrected but I believe the expected life for a set of Veyron tyres is around 6k miles and the wheels are x-rayed when changed. Quite sensible considering they are magnesium and the car is capable of 250mph+. Consider it honesty instead of other manufacturers who are happy to let products that will deteriorate be a case of 'buyer beware'(!).
I dare say the service costs are a bit more than the average BMW, but I don't think they are that bad in relation to the overall value of the car.
The fact that they are now worth considerably more than they cost new shows how they are viwed by the market as a whole - to many people they are the ultimate supercar, built without compromise.
It's been mentioned, but the fact that a de-tuned road car came 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th at Le Mans in it's first attempt is unlikely to be ever repeated.
If my Euro ticket ever comes in, it will be first on the list.
The fact that they are now worth considerably more than they cost new shows how they are viwed by the market as a whole - to many people they are the ultimate supercar, built without compromise.
It's been mentioned, but the fact that a de-tuned road car came 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th at Le Mans in it's first attempt is unlikely to be ever repeated.
If my Euro ticket ever comes in, it will be first on the list.
LongLiveTazio said:
xRIEx said:
Weight - it's nearly 2 tonnes.
That doesn't say how it is compromised, merely that it weighs as much as a GT car which, effectively, is what it is. Weight goes hand in hand with context. Engineering is all about finding the best compromise: you want 1000 horsepower? We'll need 11 radiators to deal with the heat generated; you want it to be driveable and reliable? We'll need to give it large displacement and 4 turbos, a Skyline engine boosted to 1000bhp won't cut it; you want it compact? A TVR Speed 12 engine is too long, how about a W16?
The F1's compromise is doing without all the gadgets and luxury to keep the weight down (similar principle to the F40, Noble M12, Ultima GTR, loads of Lotuses, etc. etc.). It's just one interpretation of the supercar formula.
Compromise: good, fast, cheap - pick two.
shiftydave said:
The issue for me is that the standard wheels look like they're from Halfords and are just far too boring for the rest of the car. They need to be a bit more lairy, or race-inspired (as per the LM).
Look at the ride height on that car. Even the greatest minds in formula 1, creating at that time the worlds greatest road car aren't averse to winding the coil overs down a gnats to make the car look more aggressive for publicity shots, the crafty swines. 
. Wasn't too fussed by it when it first came out, a bit like the veyron in fact as it was just so completely removed from my sphere of reference.
One day, with a lot of hard work & a bit if luck, I might be able to afford a Ferrari or a lambo or some such.
The macca & the bug are just out of a normal persons league so I kind of just let it pass me by.
But as tre years have gone past I live it (& the big bug) more & more for simply what they are & what they've done.
For any people who don't get the mclaren, buy the book "driving ambition". Quite simply the best car book ever written.
One day, with a lot of hard work & a bit if luck, I might be able to afford a Ferrari or a lambo or some such.
The macca & the bug are just out of a normal persons league so I kind of just let it pass me by.
But as tre years have gone past I live it (& the big bug) more & more for simply what they are & what they've done.
For any people who don't get the mclaren, buy the book "driving ambition". Quite simply the best car book ever written.
I prefer the standard version than one of the LM/Longtails. It's much more understated, but just the proportions, stance and road presence seem to get better every time I see one (not that often of course!)
The central driving position just tops it all off. I cannot see any mainstream manufacturer (not that McLaren is/was one) using what was at the time a very radical idea. It adds to the "legend" status, although I wonder what it's actually like to use on the road and how odd it must feel.
A recent pic of mine from the spotted thread
The central driving position just tops it all off. I cannot see any mainstream manufacturer (not that McLaren is/was one) using what was at the time a very radical idea. It adds to the "legend" status, although I wonder what it's actually like to use on the road and how odd it must feel.
A recent pic of mine from the spotted thread
It did and still does eveything for me because the F1 is a part of me and I was a part of every road and race car built 
I'm also probably the only person in the world to have 'ringed' one, won't say which one or how but I fixed it so it couldn't be done again
If I won the Euro milions I'd buy one after an F40
I'm also probably the only person in the world to have 'ringed' one, won't say which one or how but I fixed it so it couldn't be done again
If I won the Euro milions I'd buy one after an F40
Edited by marine boy on Friday 5th October 22:50
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