RE: Spotted: Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth

[fatboy18]

s m said:

Wasn't that more to do with the wind tunnel - many makers went down that route. After all, if you feed the same requirements into a computer it'll tend to churn out similar shapes?

Did they have computers in those days? I thought those were the times when Clive Sinclair was driving around on a C5? My minds slipping I'm sure your right about the wind tunnel stuff But I would rather have a 59 Caddy with crap aero, because it Looks better IMO

[anything fast]

I drove a Sapphire Cosworth once, was a little underwhelmed really.



I know, but driving a standard Cosworth is like being with Kelly Brook and only having sex in missionairy position with the lights off!

The Cosworths I have owned were like having 3 Kelly Brooks on speed! thats always been the attraction to me. A car that in standard form is fast enough and handles, but with a bit of tinkering you can have a right goer! Remember these were DE-Tuned for the road, heck the RS500 didnt even have all its injectors hooked up and had an intercooler designed for 400BHP upwards! says it all in my book...

[J4CKO]

anything fast said:

I drove a Sapphire Cosworth once, was a little underwhelmed really.



I know, but driving a standard Cosworth is like being with Kelly Brook and only having sex in missionairy position with the lights off!

The Cosworths I have owned were like having 3 Kelly Brooks on speed! thats always been the attraction to me. A car that in standard form is fast enough and handles, but with a bit of tinkering you can have a right goer! Remember these were DE-Tuned for the road, heck the RS500 didnt even have all its injectors hooked up and had an intercooler designed for 400BHP upwards! says it all in my book...

Yes, was a bog stock Sapphire and by then I had an 850 T5 and a Fiat Coupe Turbo, I appreciate that a modified one was a totally different proposition, remember being in my 1.9 GTI Engineering MK1 Golf which I thought was hot poop and was driving near Knutsford in Cheshire and a white Cosworth appeared behind me, I waited for a gap in the traffic to overtake a dawdler and got round pretty quick, kept accelerating and the Cosworth went past me as I moved back in, like I was stood on the brakes, could see it struggling for grip at abotu sixty, in the dry, It had "Turbosystems" written on the back window, big plumes of partially burnt hydrocarbons, awesome moment.


I remember being a bit dissapointed aged 16 or 17 with the RS500 review in Autocar, it to my mind didnt have much more power, I was expecting 300 plus, they tested it against a Tickford Capri and there wasnt much in it iirc, didnt twig at the time that the road car wasnt really the point.

[blade7]

Justayellowbadge said:

Did I read that correctly?

The RS500's value will overtake that of a RS200?

The RS 500 had a stronger block,bigger turbo/intercooler, plenum with 8 injectors,bigger throttle body, different front bumper and rear spoilers, the rest of it was bog stock Sierra Cosworth that basically had a tweaked XR4i shell. Not really in the same league as a RS200 is it ?.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd October 19:08

[s m]

blade7 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

Did I read that correctly?

The RS500's value will overtake that of a RS200?

The RS 500 had a stronger block,bigger turbo/intercooler, plenum with 8 injectors,bigger throttle body, different front bumper and rear spoilers, the rest of it was bog stock Sierra Cosworth that basically had a tweaked XR4i shell. Not really in the same league as a RS200 is it ?.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd October 19:08

Same as with a Merc 190E Evolution 2 over an old 2.3-16. One you pay 40k upwards, the other is yours for less than 4k

[J4CKO]

blade7 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

Did I read that correctly?

The RS500's value will overtake that of a RS200?

The RS 500 had a stronger block,bigger turbo/intercooler, plenum with 8 injectors,bigger throttle body, different front bumper and rear spoilers, the rest of it was bog stock Sierra Cosworth that basically had a tweaked XR4i shell. Not really in the same league as a RS200 is it ?.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd October 19:08

Unlikely, but it is market forces, not the actual car per se, more young lads in the eighties would have aspired to a "Cossy" than the less well known RS200, whether or not anyone would still buy a 100k Sierra versus a bespoke mid engined group B car the road once they are aware of it, I dont know, I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 3rd October 19:22

[RS500 Registrar]

blade7 said:

The RS 500 had a stronger block,bigger turbo/intercooler, plenum with 8 injectors,bigger throttle body, different front bumper and rear spoilers, the rest of it was bog stock Sierra Cosworth that basically had a tweaked XR4i shell. Not really in the same league as a RS200 is it ?.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd October 19:08

1, the rs500 had more changed than your list

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

[Leins]

RS500 Registrar said:

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

Interesting, and I don't doubt you for a second as you have much more knowledge in this area than I do, but why do you think this will happen?

I suppose in my mind, I would make the comparison to the Integrale Evo2 becoming more valuable than an S4 or 037, or an E30 M3 SE overtaking an M1

[Baryonyx]

J4CKO said:

I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 3rd October 19:22

The Sierra Cosworth has a cool-factor that the Porsche never had. The Porsche is undoubtedly a nice car but it's just another nice car whereas the the Sierra Cosworth is one of the most revered and iconic cars of all time.

[Red 4]

RS500 Registrar said:

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

Sorry, I can't see that ever happening.

£100k + for an RS200.

Very rare, very unique, very special.

Every (comparatively available) Ford has its limits

[blade7]

RS500 Registrar said:

blade7 said:

The RS 500 had a stronger block,bigger turbo/intercooler, plenum with 8 injectors,bigger throttle body, different front bumper and rear spoilers, the rest of it was bog stock Sierra Cosworth that basically had a tweaked XR4i shell. Not really in the same league as a RS200 is it ?.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd October 19:08

1, the rs500 had more changed than your list

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

1, Rear suspension mounts ?.

2, The RS500 is a great car, but would you choose a RS200 over a Sierra ?.

[slimtater]

RS500 Registrar said:

1, the rs500 had more changed than your list

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

I am not convinced that will happen; appreciate this only captures those "on the road":

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/ford_rs_200_4...

but that is almost like saying Delta Integrales will eventually out-value the Delta S4, which even though I am a huge fan of Sierra Cosworths does sound like complete b####x!

[blade7]

Baryonyx said:

J4CKO said:

I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 3rd October 19:22

The Sierra Cosworth has a cool-factor that the Porsche never had. The Porsche is undoubtedly a nice car but it's just another nice car whereas the the Sierra Cosworth is one of the most revered and iconic cars of all time.

The 944T was a victim of it's own success within Porsche, it was in danger of eclipsing the 911 which was never going to be allowed to happen. Imagine development into a 3.0 16v turbo and it had super car potential.

[J4CKO]

Baryonyx said:

J4CKO said:

I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 3rd October 19:22

The Sierra Cosworth has a cool-factor that the Porsche never had. The Porsche is undoubtedly a nice car but it's just another nice car whereas the the Sierra Cosworth is one of the most revered and iconic cars of all time.

Yes, that is the case, I still get a tingle when I see one like in the picture, I suppose the Porsche doesnt have as much racing heritage and tended to be owned more by people who wanted a Porsche, or a nice fast car becuase they could afford it then moved to the next thing, where the Cosworth has this massive RS following, the faithful are very rabid Ford lovers, they will pay massive amounts of money for their cars, it is a bit like when Baldrick comes into money and spends £400,000 (after negotiation) on his "Dream Turnip", not saying a Cosworth is a Turnip but when RS fans are able they eschew the normal routes to motoring nirvana and spend a vast amount of money on an old Escort or Sierra, my wife would view me spending 65 grand on a Sierra similar to me spending the money on oversized root vegatables or swapping the family house for some magic beans.

[s m]

J4CKO said:

, I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

I think you'll pay more for a good Merc 190E 2.5-16 or E30 M3 as well than a 944 Turbo.

Just makes the 944 Turbo a good buy at present if you like them.

At one time you could buy a 964 RS quite cheap but they've shot up in value.

No reflection on the 944 Turbos ability or quality........ Just supply and demand chap

[hairykrishna]

Leins said:

RS500 Registrar said:

2, It is irrelevant what was change , the fact is they will still become more expensive than a rs200

Interesting, and I don't doubt you for a second as you have much more knowledge in this area than I do, but why do you think this will happen?

I suppose in my mind, I would make the comparison to the Integrale Evo2 becoming more valuable than an S4 or 037, or an E30 M3 SE overtaking an M1

I too would like to know the reasoning. They launched within a few years of each other, the 200 is rarer and currently commands somewhere around triple the price. What's going to change?

[J4CKO]

s m said:

J4CKO said:

, I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

I think you'll pay more for a good Merc 190E 2.5-16 or E30 M3 as well than a 944 Turbo.

Just makes the 944 Turbo a good buy at present if you like them.

At one time you could buy a 964 RS quite cheap but they've shot up in value.

No reflection on the 944 Turbos ability or quality........ Just supply and demand chap

Yep, some cars never have their day, some seem to gain some kind of manic bidding frenzy, not always easy to predict.

Perhaps with the Porsche it was perceived as the bottom of the range for the marque, even the turbo, where as the E30 M3, the Cosworth and the Integrale were all top of their range for that manufacturer and had a big image, well the fastest if not the most expensive, if it was new cost a 750i would be worth more than a few grand.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 3rd October 19:56

[s m]

J4CKO said:

Yes, that is the case, I still get a tingle when I see one like in the picture, I suppose the Porsche doesnt have as much racing heritage and tended to be owned more by people who wanted a Porsche, or a nice fast car becuase they could afford it then moved to the next thing, where the Cosworth has this massive RS following, the faithful are very rabid Ford lovers, they will pay massive amounts of money for their cars, it is a bit like when Baldrick comes into money and spends £400,000 (after negotiation) on his "Dream Turnip", not saying a Cosworth is a Turnip but when RS fans are able they eschew the normal routes to motoring nirvana and spend a vast amount of money on an old Escort or Sierra, my wife would view me spending 65 grand on a Sierra similar to me spending the money on oversized root vegatables or swapping the family house for some magic beans.

Someone on another thread was saying that Coys sold an E30 M3 for 78k Euros recently - seems like BMW have some pretty 'rabid' fans too! Just an old E30 BMW in a similar vein....

[slimtater]

J4CKO said:

Yes, that is the case, I still get a tingle when I see one like in the picture, I suppose the Porsche doesnt have as much racing heritage and tended to be owned more by people who wanted a Porsche, or a nice fast car becuase they could afford it then moved to the next thing, where the Cosworth has this massive RS following, the faithful are very rabid Ford lovers, they will pay massive amounts of money for their cars, it is a bit like when Baldrick comes into money and spends £400,000 (after negotiation) on his "Dream Turnip", not saying a Cosworth is a Turnip but when RS fans are able they eschew the normal routes to motoring nirvana and spend a vast amount of money on an old Escort or Sierra, my wife would view me spending 65 grand on a Sierra similar to me spending the money on oversized root vegatables or swapping the family house for some magic beans.

Can't agree more!

I had this same debate earlier in the year when I actually contemplated selling both my T350 AND my M3 to fund this:



My whole family thought I was barking, especially as I would have needed to pay out over £50k for it. If money was no object, it would have been fine, but it wasn't.

But that Mk 2 RS1800 for sale looks really good value....

[s m]

J4CKO said:

s m said:

J4CKO said:

, I still dont get it that a Sierra Cosworth is worth more than a 944 Turbo.

I think you'll pay more for a good Merc 190E 2.5-16 or E30 M3 as well than a 944 Turbo.

Just makes the 944 Turbo a good buy at present if you like them.

At one time you could buy a 964 RS quite cheap but they've shot up in value.

No reflection on the 944 Turbos ability or quality........ Just supply and demand chap

Yep, some cars never have their day, some seem to gain some kind of manic bidding frenzy, not always easy to predict.

We all wish we could predict though, eh?