RE: Spotted: Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth
Discussion
Red 4 said:
Sorry, I can't see that ever happening.
£100k + for an RS200.
Very rare, very unique, very special.
Every (comparatively available) Ford has its limits
RS200: One third place finish in Gp.B£100k + for an RS200.
Very rare, very unique, very special.
Every (comparatively available) Ford has its limits
RS500: 1987 WTCC, 1988 ATCC, 1989 ATCC, 1988 DTM, 1987 and 1988 JTCC, 40 straight wins in BTCC, 1989 Spa 24h winner, Etc. Etc. Etc.
Roop said:
RS200: One third place finish in Gp.B
RS500: 1987 WTCC, 1988 ATCC, 1989 ATCC, 1988 DTM, 1987 and 1988 JTCC, 40 straight wins in BTCC, 1989 Spa 24h winner, Etc. Etc. Etc.
But they were in production within a year or two of each of each other, and current prices are still 100k+ vs ~40k. Surely if people cared that much about all of the race history we'd already be seeing that reflected in the relative prices?RS500: 1987 WTCC, 1988 ATCC, 1989 ATCC, 1988 DTM, 1987 and 1988 JTCC, 40 straight wins in BTCC, 1989 Spa 24h winner, Etc. Etc. Etc.
Roop said:
RS200: One third place finish in Gp.B
RS500: 1987 WTCC, 1988 ATCC, 1989 ATCC, 1988 DTM, 1987 and 1988 JTCC, 40 straight wins in BTCC, 1989 Spa 24h winner, Etc. Etc. Etc.
But you are comparing a (soon thereafter banned) Group B, purpose built homologation special with an evolution of a production car? I don't think anybody has really debated the success of RS500 spec Sierras, but I still maintain that a standard and original road spec RS200 will be more valuable than the same RS500.RS500: 1987 WTCC, 1988 ATCC, 1989 ATCC, 1988 DTM, 1987 and 1988 JTCC, 40 straight wins in BTCC, 1989 Spa 24h winner, Etc. Etc. Etc.
It is amazing to read the huge amount of garbage that is posted on here these days. 65k is pretty steep granted but people in the "know" and genuine Ford RS enthusiasts, this is the ultimate, the real deal. I personally find it hard to justify the big price, being an E30 M3 fan i would much prefer the Munich Legend but i cant justify the price for a Sport Evo model, ok, only 600 were ever made but 70k which is what some examples are commanding these days is pretty obscene.
As for the owner of the RS500, fair play to you fella for coming on here, as i have already mentioned, it is not my cup tea but i am certainly pretty jealous, you own one of the most iconic homologation specials ever produced in time warp condition in the rarest colour, plus the amount of "love ye cozzeh mate" comments would only make me smile and feel so privileged to own such an icon. Best of luck with the sale, i am sure you do not want to sell but i hope you find the right buyer.
As for the owner of the RS500, fair play to you fella for coming on here, as i have already mentioned, it is not my cup tea but i am certainly pretty jealous, you own one of the most iconic homologation specials ever produced in time warp condition in the rarest colour, plus the amount of "love ye cozzeh mate" comments would only make me smile and feel so privileged to own such an icon. Best of luck with the sale, i am sure you do not want to sell but i hope you find the right buyer.
hairykrishna said:
I too would like to know the reasoning. They launched within a few years of each other, the 200 is rarer and currently commands somewhere around triple the price. What's going to change?
rs200"s are not fetching 3 times the money Please read my earlier posts correctly , I have stated that rs500"s are now fetching the same money as the same miles rs200
so to say they will fetch more soon isnt as stupid as you may have first thought
I was told by many that i was talking b
ks when i said a rs500 in good nick will soon be 30k , lol 30k now buys you a tidy 500 , a concourse low miles 500 is 60k plus RS500 Registrar said:
The rs500 is the top of the tree in the ford world and prices will soon pass that of the rs200 ( you can quote me on that )
Pauls car is worth every penny and im sure he will get an offer of the asking price , If he will let it go tho is another question
Never heard of a GT40 or Ford GT then ? Pauls car is worth every penny and im sure he will get an offer of the asking price , If he will let it go tho is another question
Edited by RS500 Registrar on Wednesday 3rd October 09:14
Mint, low mileage, factory original cars will always command a premium. Some race cars will too, depending on the spec and condition. They will be bought by money no object collectors for private collections.
On the whole though, I don't see the Sierra being worth as much as an equivalent RS200.
Red 4 said:
Never heard of a GT40 or Ford GT then ?
Mint, low mileage, factory original cars will always command a premium. Some race cars will too, depending on the spec and condition. They will be bought by money no object collectors for private collections.
On the whole though, I don't see the Sierra being worth as much as an equivalent RS200.
$11 million for this one Mint, low mileage, factory original cars will always command a premium. Some race cars will too, depending on the spec and condition. They will be bought by money no object collectors for private collections.
On the whole though, I don't see the Sierra being worth as much as an equivalent RS200.
http://jalopnik.com/5936188/steve-mcqueens-11-mill...
blade7 said:
You think your road car compares to a touring car ?,
Have you ever been in a 500BHP rear drive Cosworth? It is relatively easy to get with modern tuning methods, in a circa 1200kgs car with 215's on the back it can get pretty interesting! There are lots of cars running well over 500 Bhp, some pushing 700+, and one running over 850Bhp that has done 206mph (in a fully trimmed road car!) .
They were a blank canvas, a standard Cosworth is still a benchmark for its era, but a bit of tuning really brings them alive!
blade7 said:
You think your road car compares to a touring car ?,
Sorry, I'm losing the will to live here. It's not about the metal. If you ignore the history of the RS500, why it was built and what it represents then it's an old Ford Sierra that is notable for a few things. It was very quick in it's day, thievable etc blah blah.It's the same for the E30 M3 Sport Evo and the 190E EvoII as I and others mentioned earlier. Old 80s cars. So what...? In road trim, they weren't that quick and to those that don't (read: can't or don't want to) appreciate the link with motorsports, then that's a fair and unarguable analysis. They are old 80s cars. Fin.
With this in mind it's an equally fair and unarguable analysis that these road cars are extraordinary. It's because of what they represent, not because of what they actually physically are. Without the RS500 roadcar there would never have been any of the victories I posted. The RS500 road car is a means to an end. Same for the RS200 road car, although that is of course closer to the motorsports version.
Ford Boss: "What do we need to beat Rover in touring cars...?"
Stuart Turner: "Turbocharge the Sierra".
Ford Boss: "OK. Do it".
Stuart Turner: "Err, and build 5000 of them for the road"
Ford Boss: "Really...? Hurumpf. OK. I reckon we can sell them. Worst case senario, we'll sell shed loads of 1.6GLs and a few XR4is off the back of our wins, so it's worth a punt".
Some time later...
Ford Boss: "Arses. BMW are giving us hassle with the E30 M3. We're knackered on some circuits because we can't match the handling. What can we do to absolutely muller everyone...?"
Ruedi Eggenberger: "Well, I made some plans for what I would like in the Evolution version of the Sierra".
Stuart Turner: "Giz a look Ruders. Hrm. So what you are saying is there is no way a Sierra is going to out-handle an M3, so they only thing we can do is make it go like f
k and try and pin it to the ground with some massive aero...?"Ruedi Eggenberger: "Yeah, basically. I did it with a Volvo 240 for christ's sake, so don't give me any s
t. I'm Swiss. I will beat you to death with a lump of Gruyère".Ford Boss: "Yeah, 'course you will Ruders. Wait. Don't tell me we have to build 5000 of these f
kers..."Stuart Turner: "Nope. Just 500 this time".
Ford Boss: "Smeg."
Stuart Turner: "I like it. Mike, can we do this...?"
Mike Moreton: "Yeah, I reckon we can do it. We'll send the last 500 RS Cosworths to Tickford and they can convert them."
Ford Boss: "What last 500 RS Cosworths...?"
Stuart Turner: "Ah, yeah. About that. We sort of pre-empted this and snaffled the last 500 Cossies to be made and stuck them in one of our warehouses."
Ford Boss: "You conniving b
ds...! Good work...! OK. What shall we call them...?"Ford Marketing: "Oh I dunno, who cares...? There's only 500 of them and nobody in their right mind will pay twenty grand for a butchered RS Cosworth that doesn't go any faster. Erm, RS500...?"
Ford Boss: "Go on then, but it has better sodding well work."
Mike Moreton: "Good stuff. OK marketing, you send me the stickers then."
Stuart Turner: "Ooh, I LOVE stickers. Can we have go faster stripes and stuff...?'
Mike Moreton: "Aye, go on then."
Etc etc etc...
As for road cars vs. racing cars, back in the 1980's the differences were not as huge as you might expect. For me, this is what made touring cars back then great - the cars on the track were actually representative of something you could buy in the showroom. What were the differences...? Basically: Seam welded sunroof-less shell (provided by FMS), roll cage and fire suppression, upgraded dampers and springs, uprated roll bars, big brakes and wheels, Tuned engine, Getrag or Hollinger 'box, big diff. That's it. Some teams went further than others such as Ruedi Eggenberger and built very special cars with magnesium rear semi-trailing arms and such, but to all intents and purposes, the race cars are very identifiable with the road cars, unlike any touring car from the super touring era onwards which were and are full of ultra-trick bespoke components machined by naked virgins from unobtainium.
If you don't get it, or you don't want to get it, fine. I'm not going to argue with that.
This doesn't however, make the people that do get it wrong, stupid, mad in tha heed or anything else. Just a choice, just an opinion, just a *cough* obsession *cough*.
Not specifically directed at you blade7, but at this thread in general - Some posters could do well to remember that this is Pistonheads, not Meatheads. Provided you don't drive a G-Wiz or an MX-5, you're supposed to be in good hands here. Some of the posts are laughable, especially that bloke who posted a few times earlier who was clearly using thie Internet wthout supervision from his carer for the first time.
Edited by Roop on Thursday 4th October 07:31
Roop said:
Sorry, I'm losing the will to live here. It's not about the metal. If you ignore the history of the RS500, why it was built and what it represents then it's an old Ford Sierra that is notable for a few things. It was very quick in it's day, thievable etc blah blah.
It's the same for the E30 M3 Sport Evo and the 190E EvoII as I and others mentioned earlier. Old 80s cars. So what...? In road trim, they weren't that quick and to those that don't (read: can't or don't want to) appreciate the link with motorsports, then that's a fair and unarguable analysis. They are old 80s cars. Fin.
With this in mind it's an equally fair and unarguable analysis that these road cars are extraordinary. It's because of what they represent, not because of what they actually physically are. Without the RS500 roadcar there would never have been any of the victories I posted. The RS500 road car is a means to an end. Same for the RS200 road car, although that is of course closer to the motorsports version.
Ford Boss: "What do we need to beat Rover in touring cars...?"
Stuart Turner: "Turbocharge the Sierra".
Ford Boss: "OK. Do it".
Stuart Turner: "Err, and build 5000 of them for the road"
Ford Boss: "Really...? Hurumpf. OK. I reckon we can sell them. Worst case senario, we'll sell shed loads of 1.6GLs and a few XR4is off the back of our wins, so it's worth a punt".
Some time later...
Ford Boss: "Arses. BMW are giving us hassle with the E30 M3. We're knackered on some circuits because we can't match the handling. What can we do to absolutely muller everyone...?"
Ruedi Eggenberger: "Well, I made some plans for what I would like in the Evolution version of the Sierra".
Stuart Turner: "Giz a look Ruders. Hrm. So what you are saying is there is no way a Sierra is going to out-handle an M3, so they only thing we can do is make it go like fk and try and pin it to the ground with some massive aero...?"
Ruedi Eggenberger: "Yeah, basically. I did it with a Volvo 240 for christ's sake, so don't give me any st. I'm Swiss. I will beat you to death with a lump of Gruyère".
Ford Boss: "Yeah, 'course you will Ruders. Wait. Don't tell me we have to build 5000 of these fkers..."
Stuart Turner: "Nope. Just 500 this time".
Ford Boss: "Smeg."
Stuart Turner: "I like it. Mike, can we do this...?"
Mike Moreton: "Yeah, I reckon we can do it. We'll send the last 500 RS Cosworths to Tickford and they can convert them."
Ford Boss: "What last 500 RS Cosworths...?"
Stuart Turner: "Ah, yeah. About that. We sort of pre-empted this and snaffled the last 500 Cossies to be made and stuck them in one of our warehouses."
Ford Boss: "You conniving bds...! Good work...! OK. What shall we call them...?"
Ford Marketing: "Oh I dunno, who cares...? There's only 500 of them and nobody in their right mind will pay twenty grand for a butchered RS Cosworth that doesn't go any faster. Erm, RS500...?"
Ford Boss: "Go on then, but it has better sodding well work."
Mike Moreton: "Good stuff. OK marketing, you send me the stickers then."
Stuart Turner: "Ooh, I LOVE stickers. Can we have go faster stripes and stuff...?'
Mike Moreton: "Aye, go on then."
Etc etc etc...
As for road cars vs. racing cars, back in the 1980's the differences were not as huge as you might expect. For me, this is what made touring cars back then great - the cars on the track were actually representative of something you could buy in the showroom. What were the differences...? Basically: Seam welded sunroof-less shell (provided by FMS), roll cage and fire suppression, upgraded dampers and springs, uprated roll bars, big brakes and wheels, Tuned engine, Getrag or Hollinger 'box, big diff. That's it. Some teams went further than others such as Ruedi Eggenberger and built very special cars with magnesium rear semi-trailing arms and such, but to all intents and purposes, the race cars are very identifiable with the road cars, unlike any touring car from the super touring era onwards which were and are full of ultra-trick bespoke components machined by naked virgins from unobtainium.
If you don't get it, or you don't want to get it, fine. I'm not going to argue with that.
This doesn't however, make the people that do get it wrong, stupid, mad in tha heed or anything else. Just a choice, just an opinion, just a *cough* obsession *cough*.
Not specifically directed at you blade7, but at this thread in general - Some posters could do well to remember that this is Pistonheads, not Meatheads. Provided you don't drive a G-Wiz or an MX-5, you're supposed to be in good hands here. Some of the posts are laughable, especially that bloke who posted a few times earlier who was clearly using thie Internet wthout supervision from his carer for the first time.
Not wishing to sound picky and using non-internet sourced information, it was 1983 when Stuart Turner briefed his team that they a) needed to build 5000 and then b) create the evolution that would be the basis of the Gp A race car.It's the same for the E30 M3 Sport Evo and the 190E EvoII as I and others mentioned earlier. Old 80s cars. So what...? In road trim, they weren't that quick and to those that don't (read: can't or don't want to) appreciate the link with motorsports, then that's a fair and unarguable analysis. They are old 80s cars. Fin.
With this in mind it's an equally fair and unarguable analysis that these road cars are extraordinary. It's because of what they represent, not because of what they actually physically are. Without the RS500 roadcar there would never have been any of the victories I posted. The RS500 road car is a means to an end. Same for the RS200 road car, although that is of course closer to the motorsports version.
Ford Boss: "What do we need to beat Rover in touring cars...?"
Stuart Turner: "Turbocharge the Sierra".
Ford Boss: "OK. Do it".
Stuart Turner: "Err, and build 5000 of them for the road"
Ford Boss: "Really...? Hurumpf. OK. I reckon we can sell them. Worst case senario, we'll sell shed loads of 1.6GLs and a few XR4is off the back of our wins, so it's worth a punt".
Some time later...
Ford Boss: "Arses. BMW are giving us hassle with the E30 M3. We're knackered on some circuits because we can't match the handling. What can we do to absolutely muller everyone...?"
Ruedi Eggenberger: "Well, I made some plans for what I would like in the Evolution version of the Sierra".
Stuart Turner: "Giz a look Ruders. Hrm. So what you are saying is there is no way a Sierra is going to out-handle an M3, so they only thing we can do is make it go like f
k and try and pin it to the ground with some massive aero...?"Ruedi Eggenberger: "Yeah, basically. I did it with a Volvo 240 for christ's sake, so don't give me any s
t. I'm Swiss. I will beat you to death with a lump of Gruyère".Ford Boss: "Yeah, 'course you will Ruders. Wait. Don't tell me we have to build 5000 of these f
kers..."Stuart Turner: "Nope. Just 500 this time".
Ford Boss: "Smeg."
Stuart Turner: "I like it. Mike, can we do this...?"
Mike Moreton: "Yeah, I reckon we can do it. We'll send the last 500 RS Cosworths to Tickford and they can convert them."
Ford Boss: "What last 500 RS Cosworths...?"
Stuart Turner: "Ah, yeah. About that. We sort of pre-empted this and snaffled the last 500 Cossies to be made and stuck them in one of our warehouses."
Ford Boss: "You conniving b
ds...! Good work...! OK. What shall we call them...?"Ford Marketing: "Oh I dunno, who cares...? There's only 500 of them and nobody in their right mind will pay twenty grand for a butchered RS Cosworth that doesn't go any faster. Erm, RS500...?"
Ford Boss: "Go on then, but it has better sodding well work."
Mike Moreton: "Good stuff. OK marketing, you send me the stickers then."
Stuart Turner: "Ooh, I LOVE stickers. Can we have go faster stripes and stuff...?'
Mike Moreton: "Aye, go on then."
Etc etc etc...
As for road cars vs. racing cars, back in the 1980's the differences were not as huge as you might expect. For me, this is what made touring cars back then great - the cars on the track were actually representative of something you could buy in the showroom. What were the differences...? Basically: Seam welded sunroof-less shell (provided by FMS), roll cage and fire suppression, upgraded dampers and springs, uprated roll bars, big brakes and wheels, Tuned engine, Getrag or Hollinger 'box, big diff. That's it. Some teams went further than others such as Ruedi Eggenberger and built very special cars with magnesium rear semi-trailing arms and such, but to all intents and purposes, the race cars are very identifiable with the road cars, unlike any touring car from the super touring era onwards which were and are full of ultra-trick bespoke components machined by naked virgins from unobtainium.
If you don't get it, or you don't want to get it, fine. I'm not going to argue with that.
This doesn't however, make the people that do get it wrong, stupid, mad in tha heed or anything else. Just a choice, just an opinion, just a *cough* obsession *cough*.
Not specifically directed at you blade7, but at this thread in general - Some posters could do well to remember that this is Pistonheads, not Meatheads. Provided you don't drive a G-Wiz or an MX-5, you're supposed to be in good hands here. Some of the posts are laughable, especially that bloke who posted a few times earlier who was clearly using thie Internet wthout supervision from his carer for the first time.
Edited by Roop on Thursday 4th October 07:31
Not saying I was there at the time and your version is much funnier!
hairykrishna said:
Really? I can't find an RS200 for less than 90k. Can you find an advert for one around the 40k mark?
I said that low miles rs500"s are fetching the same as ( realisticly ) priced rs200"s Please show me a 200 that has sold for 100k plus ?
the rs200 registrar tells me that they actually sell for 60 to 80k , and i have said ,,,3 ,,,, times in this thread now that rs500"s are having offers of between and above that amount
so my theory that a low miles rs500 will soon fetch more than rs200"s isnt as daft as you may first think
I have nowhere said they ARE fetching more , i said , IMO , they soon will be fetching more
I do wish people would read replies correctly before they quote and reply
Edited by RS500 Registrar on Thursday 4th October 08:26
RS500 Registrar said:
I said that low miles rs500"s are fetching the same as ( realisticly ) priced rs200"s
Please show me a 200 that has sold for 100k plus ?
the rs200 registrar tells me that they actually sell for 60 to 80k , and i have said ,,,3 ,,,, times in this thread now that rs500"s are having offers of near that amount
so my theory that a low miles rs500 will soon fetch more than rs200"s isnt as daft as you may first think
I have nowhere said they ARE fetching more , i said , IMO , they soon will be fetching more
I do wish people would read replies correctly before they quote and reply
That's interesting - have many RS200s changed hands recently as the ones I have seen appear to remain unsold? Hard to determine if that is asking price or market forces though.Please show me a 200 that has sold for 100k plus ?
the rs200 registrar tells me that they actually sell for 60 to 80k , and i have said ,,,3 ,,,, times in this thread now that rs500"s are having offers of near that amount
so my theory that a low miles rs500 will soon fetch more than rs200"s isnt as daft as you may first think
I have nowhere said they ARE fetching more , i said , IMO , they soon will be fetching more
I do wish people would read replies correctly before they quote and reply
Roop said:
Ford Boss: "What do we need to beat Rover in touring cars...?"
Stuart Turner: "Turbocharge the Sierra".
Ford Boss: "OK. Do it".
Stuart Turner: "Err, and build 5000 of them for the road"
Ford Boss: "Really...? Hurumpf. OK. I reckon we can sell them. Worst case senario, we'll sell shed loads of 1.6GLs and a few XR4is off the back of our wins, so it's worth a punt".
...........
.......
Ford Boss: "Go on then, but it has better sodding well work."
Mike Moreton: "Good stuff. OK marketing, you send me the stickers then."
Stuart Turner: "Ooh, I LOVE stickers. Can we have go faster stripes and stuff...?'
Mike Moreton: "Aye, go on then."
Etc etc etc...
Stuart Turner: "Turbocharge the Sierra".
Ford Boss: "OK. Do it".
Stuart Turner: "Err, and build 5000 of them for the road"
Ford Boss: "Really...? Hurumpf. OK. I reckon we can sell them. Worst case senario, we'll sell shed loads of 1.6GLs and a few XR4is off the back of our wins, so it's worth a punt".
...........
.......
Ford Boss: "Go on then, but it has better sodding well work."
Mike Moreton: "Good stuff. OK marketing, you send me the stickers then."
Stuart Turner: "Ooh, I LOVE stickers. Can we have go faster stripes and stuff...?'
Mike Moreton: "Aye, go on then."
Etc etc etc...
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