RE: PH poll: best hot hatch
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
because more people voted for the gti. Simples... 
I know, but they are the same car lol. If a Clio 172 and a 172 cup are the same, then a gti-6 and rallye are the same. They have identical differences (cloth seats, no air con, cheaper from new, marginaly lighter and for the Clio, the cup has no abs) so if anything the cup is further from the 172 than the rallye from the gti. Also 106 gti posts highly but there is no mention of the Saxo VTS, which is also essentially the same car with different badges/ trim attachedMadmatt74 said:
Madmatt74 said:
How do you class "Hot hatch"?
Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
I still cant see a better way to discribe "Hot Hatch"Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
Anyone else fancy a try?
Contigo said:
And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.
For me the winner is the MK1 Gti, it will always be the original hot hatch and still to this day driving one makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, pure passion that car is.
Takes a deep breath........ For me the winner is the MK1 Gti, it will always be the original hot hatch and still to this day driving one makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, pure passion that car is.
Don't knock it until you've tried it. My car (Lancia Delta integrale) is currently showing 265k KM's. I've taken her back to Italy 3 times (over the Alps "properly" twice). Granted she's no garage Queen, but turns more heads than your normal hatch.
DrTre said:
Not at the moment, the 8v was around sixteen thousand from memory...but that may be wrong...there's an autocar scan somewhere on the net,.where it's pitched against the testarossa.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
The Lancia in that article was £15920, the Testarossa was £89700
s m said:
DrTre said:
Not at the moment, the 8v was around sixteen thousand from memory...but that may be wrong...there's an autocar scan somewhere on the net,.where it's pitched against the testarossa.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
The Lancia in that article was £15920, the Testarossa was £89700
Wonder how much other Delta models where at the time, a poster earlier claimed the Integrale was 4x the price. So that'd be about £4k then?
Wasn't a Focus RS pushing on £30k recently? So on that basis would £180k buy you a modern Ferrari Testarossa equivalent?
300bhp/ton said:
s m said:
DrTre said:
Not at the moment, the 8v was around sixteen thousand from memory...but that may be wrong...there's an autocar scan somewhere on the net,.where it's pitched against the testarossa.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
The Lancia in that article was £15920, the Testarossa was £89700
Wonder how much other Delta models where at the time, a poster earlier claimed the Integrale was 4x the price. So that'd be about £4k then?
Wasn't a Focus RS pushing on £30k recently? So on that basis would £180k buy you a modern Ferrari Testarossa equivalent?
Integrale should be disqualified as it cost more than most other hot hatches in its day to produce a superior machine.
Jesus, I've heard just about every excuse why it shouldn't be allowed in this poll. It's a case of 'do anything to keep the car out of the poll or my car won't win.'
Get over it, dry your eyes. My car is better than your car.
Jesus, I've heard just about every excuse why it shouldn't be allowed in this poll. It's a case of 'do anything to keep the car out of the poll or my car won't win.'
Get over it, dry your eyes. My car is better than your car.
Dunno if the last two posts were aimed specifically at me, but if they were: do I think it should be classed as a "traditional" hot hatch? Push came to shove, no I don't.
Do I say this because I want "my car to win"? Er..."my car" IS the integrale. I'm just about to another.
In a list of best rally derived cars it'd be at the top for me by leagues, better than the Stratos.
In a list of best cars ever made, it'd only lose to a 288GTO in my opinion.
f
k it, in a list of best convertibles ever made, it'd only lose to a DS Decap. (and no, I'm not talking of the Agnelli cars)
Is it a "hot hatch"? No, that does the integrale down, and more importantly, that doesn't let something more deserving of the spirit of the title win it.
ETA
Personally, I have no problem with it "winning" 300's poll, it fits the criteria he set and that's cool (tbh, he was going to be damned whatever criteria he came up with). It was an interesting exercise and cheers to him for putting the effort into the online pub discussion it is/was.
Do I say this because I want "my car to win"? Er..."my car" IS the integrale. I'm just about to another.
In a list of best rally derived cars it'd be at the top for me by leagues, better than the Stratos.
In a list of best cars ever made, it'd only lose to a 288GTO in my opinion.
f
k it, in a list of best convertibles ever made, it'd only lose to a DS Decap. (and no, I'm not talking of the Agnelli cars)Is it a "hot hatch"? No, that does the integrale down, and more importantly, that doesn't let something more deserving of the spirit of the title win it.
ETA
Jacobyte said:
Quite right Deltashad. The front cover even calls it the "Hottest Hatch", and that was over 20 years ago.
Whilst the minority may not agree, the majority have had their say and have voted.
Just to add..technically speaking, the majority might actually say that the integrale isn't a hot hatch (to be fair, they may not)..but that is a different question to the one posed..even then, unless the Lancia polled over half the votes then more people didn't vote for it than did.Whilst the minority may not agree, the majority have had their say and have voted.
Personally, I have no problem with it "winning" 300's poll, it fits the criteria he set and that's cool (tbh, he was going to be damned whatever criteria he came up with). It was an interesting exercise and cheers to him for putting the effort into the online pub discussion it is/was.
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 6th October 01:21
That wasn't aimed at you doc. That was a general post at probably 50% of the voters opinion on whether it was or is a hot hatch.
I only ever saw it as a hot hatch. It was originally a small/medium sized hatchback.
It then became the all wheel drive very quick hatchback. Before becoming the integrale. In all honesty I don't think it was over priced until the 16v was launched.
The hf4wd 2.0 litre turbo was around 15k. I think.... then the 8v 16k, but I'm sure the 16v took a hike to 17.5k with the evos suitably increasing.
I was always a Lancia fan, I wanted a delta 1600gt ever since I first saw one in the early 80s. They just got better and sexier as time went on.
When exactly did it stop being a hot hatch?
Golf gti wasn't the first hot hatch. Nor the talbot sunbeam. It was the wonderful r5 gordini.
I only ever saw it as a hot hatch. It was originally a small/medium sized hatchback.
It then became the all wheel drive very quick hatchback. Before becoming the integrale. In all honesty I don't think it was over priced until the 16v was launched.
The hf4wd 2.0 litre turbo was around 15k. I think.... then the 8v 16k, but I'm sure the 16v took a hike to 17.5k with the evos suitably increasing.
I was always a Lancia fan, I wanted a delta 1600gt ever since I first saw one in the early 80s. They just got better and sexier as time went on.
When exactly did it stop being a hot hatch?
Golf gti wasn't the first hot hatch. Nor the talbot sunbeam. It was the wonderful r5 gordini.
Edited by deltashad on Saturday 6th October 01:53
No probs.
You've probably hit the nail on the head by asking "when did it stop being a hot hatch?" because for me (and others it seems) it simply never was one. It never was in the same class as the Golf, 205, Corolla etc..the HF Turbo was, the integrale, no. That class is the hot hatch to me.
Aaaanyway, it's all a larf innit?
You've probably hit the nail on the head by asking "when did it stop being a hot hatch?" because for me (and others it seems) it simply never was one. It never was in the same class as the Golf, 205, Corolla etc..the HF Turbo was, the integrale, no. That class is the hot hatch to me.
Aaaanyway, it's all a larf innit?
Why are some people attacking 300bhp/ton? He set up the poll, he didnt cast all the votes. I dontbknow the guy personally, but he's taking flak about what is or isnt a hot hatch. Judging by the broad spectrum (by hot hatch standards) hes done a good job to not dismiss certain vehicles. As far as i can see the list has 50 cars on it all hatchbacks that are performance versions of normal cars. Yes some more extreme than others but still relevant.
The Obeast said:
Why are some people attacking 300bhp/ton? He set up the poll, he didnt cast all the votes. I dontbknow the guy personally, but he's taking flak about what is or isnt a hot hatch. Judging by the broad spectrum (by hot hatch standards) hes done a good job to not dismiss certain vehicles. As far as i can see the list has 50 cars on it all hatchbacks that are performance versions of normal cars. Yes some more extreme than others but still relevant.
was it a poll, i though it was random scribblings of what people half thought hence the nonsense result The Obeast said:
Did you vote? If this poll is so bad have you made your own to 'recitify' how wrong it is? Or you just had beef with 300 in the past and are now just being an ass?
In case you weren't aware, *this* thread is in response to a PistonHeads news article reporting on the results of the poll. Many people, myself included, didn't see the original poll. We saw the news article and are commenting on it. As for the rest of your post, I think 300 can defend himself and doesn't need some gushing sycophant to do it for him.
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